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flier129

Sub-frame reinforcement proposal for PTE/TTE & PTF/TTF

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flier129

This is directed to Greg and to those who could approve a technical bulletin in regards to a safety item.

 

I would like to propose to add a technical bullet for the 2018 PTE/TTE & TTF/PTF rules, allowing:

Reinforcement of suspension mounting locations on OEM frame rails, Sub-frames/suspension cross-members, and unibody is permitted provided there is no performance benefit or relocation of the mounting points

 

This is already a rule in ST5/TT5 on 6.1.3 2)1g):

Y8NFPZEl.jpg

 

 

Also in NASA Spec Miata 2017 rules:

1dGehHbl.jpg

 

 

If no sub-frame reinforcements are in place, this can happen

1jalfanl.jpg

This is from my TTE car and the failure happened at Road Atlanta in December 2017. I've tracked the car for about three years and did not know of this issue. I later found out about this issue in SM and the rule exception they have written in for the reinforcement plates as a safety measure.

 

 

The reinforcement plates, Mazda Part #0000-04-5989, are $17.70 and do not provide a performance benefit and is purely a safety measure.

 

I appreciate everyone's consideration on this.

 

Thanks!

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BAS-43

I support any measure which makes this sport even marginally safer. If it has the added benefit of keeping costs down, then all the better. If this is something already considered and adopted by SM and TT5/ST5, I see no problem with allowing it for the remainder of the tenure for TTE/PTE.

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BMANKER

I would like to see this approved.

Bob Manker

TTE

Member # 169112

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Ev

I think you currently can do this, but it will cost some points.

 

Are you asking this be a free mod for the MX5 only,or across the board? While on your car it may not be a performance enhancement, on other cars a tortured version of it could provide a benefit.

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flier129
I think you currently can do this, but it will cost some points.

 

Are you asking this be a free mod for the MX5 only,or across the board? While on your car it may not be a performance enhancement, on other cars a tortured version of it could provide a benefit.

 

Across the board, double check the picture of the ST5/TT5 rules I put up. I would think it would be easiest to be written similar to how it is in the ST5/TT5 rules. Which states "...provided there is no performance benefit or relocation of the mounting points."

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JamesMilko

As long as this modification will not take a modifier when the ST6 rules are released I'm on board.

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arsprod

A big +1 from me. This is a safety issue not a performance advantage. It seems silly that one can weld a torn seam back together but can't reinforce the joint to prevent a failure. And as @JamesMilko commented this needs to follow to st6.

 

Aaron

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Arca_ex

If it's already allowed in ST5 and ST4, is a safety item for that specific problem, doesn't provide a performance benefit, and is also a specific part that you can order from Mazda themselves and specify in the rulebook, I think it would be dumb not to add this to the no points modification section of TT/PT.

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CWeber

So did OP or anyone else actually write an email to GregG asking about this?

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Ev
I think you currently can do this, but it will cost some points.

 

Are you asking this be a free mod for the MX5 only,or across the board? While on your car it may not be a performance enhancement, on other cars a tortured version of it could provide a benefit.

 

Across the board, double check the picture of the ST5/TT5 rules I put up. I would think it would be easiest to be written similar to how it is in the ST5/TT5 rules. Which states "...provided there is no performance benefit or relocation of the mounting points."

Who's in charge of proving a mod does or doesn't "improve performance"?

 

I think this has come up before with regard to the E36 BMW chassis, and the determination was "warts and all". But I can't find it. The search continues...

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flier129
So did OP or anyone else actually write an email to GregG asking about this?

 

Yes, I copied this thread off the e-mail I sent to Greg, my TT director, and my Regional Director in NASA-SE.

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blkmkiii

I for one hope this isn't being looked at as a modification. This should be put in place, no questions asked. Great post.

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Matt@NCM

+1 cost savings in racing is always a good thing.

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jpreston

Another +1 to making these types of reinforcements free for all cars in PTD, PTE, PTF, and ST6.

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alwaysinboost

This question has been asked many times before. The answer has always been NO, with the reasoning being something along the lines of needing to check 3 boxes, reliability, performance and something else...

 

E46 was an exception because of a class-action lawsuit.

 

I would love to lose the +3 points for modified subframes on an e36, but I don't see it happening until E and lower classes move to P:W like D & C have in TT/ST5

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dbrad

+1 in agreement.

 

Many of the Spec Miata cars crossing over into TTE have the reinforcement and similar language already in TT4 & TT5. Seems like a no brainer!

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cucamelsmd15

Another +1. I put a car in a tire wall because of this exact failure. No warning.

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flier129
Another +1. I put a car in a tire wall because of this exact failure. No warning.

 

Ouch! Are you willing to share the details of the car? What class(PTF/E3?), tires, general pace(lap times?), etc?

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MXDave813s

We are building a BMW 318 E36 to PTE specs. The body has a cracked subframe and we are welding in OEM subframe braces. I read this as a zero point mod. Am I wrong?

 

Thanks!

 

David

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cucamelsmd15
Another +1. I put a car in a tire wall because of this exact failure. No warning.

 

Ouch! Are you willing to share the details of the car? What class(PTF/E3?), tires, general pace(lap times?), etc?

 

Never saw the reply, sorry!

 

Chumpcar Miata that was previously a SM car. Right side failed at VIR. Came down the hill after South Bend, hit my brake marker. Car dove HARD left which basically resulted in me going straight off into the tire wall trying to gather it up.

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