NOV. 12-13 AT BUTTONWILLOW. WHO'S GOING?

[PeanutinCA]

I just checked POC Time Trial for TH, because they ran there a couple weekends back. Figuring I could get a comparison time. Our fast man Dwain Dement ran a 2:19. So, 2:12 or even lower seems fast then? I haven't been to TH so take my thoughts with a grain of salt. Unless Dwain had an off or something? Not sure? Or maybe as he was contesting on his own maybe he cruised the track in 5th gear? Wonder what his race time was? Here is his time below;

 

GSR Dwain Dement 2:19.878

 

Our Track records are set by traditional Time Trial laps.

 

P.Dilly.

[Spec-944#70]

Hate to break the news but in the race Dwain ran a 2:07.374. Check POC web site under Orange Cup Race. I haven't spoken to Dwain in a week or so but since no one was contesting in TT in our class my guess is he either criused or did the whole thing in 5th! (Yes he's done that before!)

Gotta love his driving! I don't know why he didn't finish though! Just brings up the point; even if your last keep driving as you never know!!

[PeanutinCA]

Twelve and a half seconds! That's not cruising, that's pushing your car around. As in, standing behind it and pushing with your hands and feet! I've never know Dwain to hold back, not that much anyway? That's odd, I see he was several laps down in the cup race, which, is after the TT? Ask him what the hell went on Eric? Go from a 2:19.8 at Sunday lunch time I assume based on normal schedule. Then a 2:07.3 in the Cup Race, but failed to finish. Hmmm, yet, 6.5 seconds quicker than Pete that won the race? Has anyone had a race report from TH? Pete, Yousky, what went down?

 

P.D.

[Packfill]

I don't know which is funnier..... The fact that Duane ran the CUP car in the race and agreed to finish behind Pete..... or...

 

That Eric just flat out believed that Duane set that lap time in a Spec-944.

[PeanutinCA]

Say what? How do you take Cup Race points for running a Cup Car in the 944 Spec class? So, what car was used to set TT fast lap and "Track Record" for GSR at TH?

[Packfill]

My understanding, from a reliable source is that Duane drove the TT in the Spec Car, but sometime later in the weekend had a problem that sidelined the car. ( I think Bernheim yelled at it) Rather than borrow someones Spec 944, Pete agreed that Duane could run a non-spec car in the race, but only for second place, as there were only two racers in the class. It looks like Duane went out and screwed around for 6 laps or so and brought it in for Pete to win...... (Although I am certain that Eric will tell you that Duane could of lent Pete the Cup car and driven Petes 944 and STILL beat him...)

 

Actually, Eric, I spoke with Duane, today, and he said in order to cut down on expenses next year, he is going to ask for a car waiver for the 944-spec class. He feels that he no longer actually NEEDS a car to beat us, and is getting fit enough to challenge us....on foot. He does have some concern, however, that if he passes Timmy and accidentally f*rts, Timmy will DQ his car for an "illegal exhaust."

[PeanutinCA]

Now THAT'S a funny post!

[Spec-944#70]

Do you actually think Dwain was driving something other than the Spec 944 in R9S? You're smoking something. And yes he's that fast yet Dilly seems to keep on his heels and has beaten him in places. Remember you're talking about a guy who should be Pro. He's beaten Bill Auberlen, Cort Wagner, and plenty of other famous drivers. The fact that we have a few who can keep up with him is amazing. Catching is one thing but passing is another. He's had tons of track time, fitness training and expert coaching. I think he's the stake in the ground and anyone who gets second to him should be proud. Remember when he beats a car that has twice the HP (Not 944 Spec but another race!) he got it goin on!.

And yes I'm a fan! He is willing to share his knowledge and help everyone out. You have to admit the boys got game!!

[Tim Comeau]

Did I hear a fart? Was that Dwain?

[mfoley]

Too funny ...

 

For whatever it's worth I heard third hand that Dwain blew an engine in the race and Pete let Dwain use his car for the TT. I don't know why Pete didn't run the TT.

 

Pete - Where are you? Give us a report.

[Tim Comeau]

Yeah, let's get Peetie out there racing with us!

[Spec-944#70]

Yes Dwain's motor through the #2 rod bearing. Pete let Dwain use his car for the TT and also let dwain drive a 911 in the CR also but promised to come in behind him, hense the 2:07 time and not finishing the race. It was very nice of Pete to let Dwain get some points for the effort. Way to go Pete!!

[PeanutinCA]

DOH!!! I wish my backup car was a 911. Is that the V3 car like Kev's? Very nice car. I'm afraid my backup car is a DNR. When Pete's clutch went, we should have let him run something else and come in which ever was the minor position rather than get 1 DNR point. Kind of defeats the whole DNR system doesn't it?

[944-Spec#94]

Hmm,

I guess POC is different, but running a non legal car in class for points.

 

Seems it should have been DQ type thing.

 

 

It is one thing if it was an legal, but under prepared car like for example running a Stock car in a Prepared class, but a car from a different class all together?

 

So if my spec car breaks can a run 400 hp 951 in R9S for points aslong as I promise to be nice?

[DavidH]

Jim,

LOL...I had a tough day today and then read your post on Dwain. Made me laugh so hard I read it twice. My day is now better.

 

Thanks

[Packfill]

Do you actually think Dwain was driving something other than the Spec 944 in R9S? You're smoking something. And yes he's that fast!!......

 

Apology accepted.

 

... and who cares if Dwain would have ridden his bicycle, he would have gotten the same points.... there was a 944 available to him, but rather than risk breaking someone elses 944, he cleared it with both Pete AND the series director and then bowed out and drove the 911 for six laps and pulled over..... he could have walked the race or taken a Lear jet....same result.....

[PeanutinCA]

The problem is Jim, it's great for people with multiple cars, lots of cash or lots of buddies. What about someone who doesn't have access to another car who falls in the same position? Do we just award the lowest place points? Why lap at all then and why have a DNR 1 point system. It's not about who was involved, that's not the point. It's that not everyone in the club will be afforded the same rights or abilities is more the point. Don't change it now, it wont change anything for championships this year anyway. But address it for the future. Hell, when my car wasn't finished for an STS, I didn't just drive any old car for GSR, I paid out of my pocket for a GSR legal car to gain points. Should I have rocked up in my X3 and said hey guys, can I have the points just for the sake of championship desperation? If you blow a tire during the race (before half distance), should you not get a DNF? Which is only 1 point? Same if your motor blew up during the race? If your motor blew up before the race? I'm not sure how I (exactly) feel about this, but I'm leaning towards it not being fair to everyone? And I could probably lend a car most weekends and benefit from the rule. But others, like my good buddy Pete (who lost out at Laguna) should be afforded the same benefits. Which is not about being allowed to do it, because he would have been allowed. But taking points, that's the part for discussion. I think everyone should be in the same boat?

 

Hmmm, the more I think about it, the more I'm not sure how I feel? What do others think? Any good arguments for or against?

 

Again, this is for future consideration/discussion.

 

P.D.

[944-Spec#94]

Being out on the track and participating is one thing. Come to and event and your first session the car craps out? Yes it is nice not to have packup and go home and miss the entire weekend.

 

I am all for folks partcipating. However if the car is not legal and materialy so... then it is rather simple NO POINTS.

 

Hmm lets say I show up and cord my last set of toyo's just before race time? There are no spares avalible anywhere, but I have set of safe street tires. Should I be forced to go home?

 

No I'd say throw on the streets tires and go out and race. In fact I go and get points too. Street tires will NOT make you faster than Race tires so in this isolated case have at it. Try it every weekend and then things change.

 

However if your spare set of tires is set of fresh hoosiers.... Well go and run,but for zero points? Why... Hoosiers are clearly faster than toyo's and an advantage. No need to go home, but don't expect to collect points even if you agree to play nice.

 

 

Like I said... I am all for folks running races and having fun. However if you are not legal don't expect to collect points. If it is a downgrade on spec... then ... maybe, but it better be a clear down grade and all drivers at the event must agree.

[Spec-944#70]

You guys have way too much time on your hands!!! He paid to run for the weekend and was offered someone else's car. Since he choose not to chance breaking/bending/damaging the other car he chose to drive one of his "other" cars and promise not to finish ahead of the other competition! Don't forget he also had Pete's blessings on this and he would have had mine also if I was there. Alot of us have scrambled to get parts or tires for a race. We didn't even slow down to take last. We drove as hard as we could. Does this now mean if you run street tires and the leaders crash on the last lap and you pass them you get the points for first? Right?

Let it go guys. I bet if it was anyone but Dwain you be happy,

[944-Spec#94]

Let it go guys. I bet if it was anyone but Dwain you be happy,

 

This has nothing to do with Dwain.

 

It is about 911 getting "POINTS" for GSR(R9S) or whatever.

 

If your car breaks and you can't find or chose not to race a legal car you get ZERO POINTS.

 

Now the example with street tires one were MAYBE... Just MAYBE you could argue for points with things being a Hardship and all... but I can't see giving points for a completely different car.

 

Honestly season points value finishing order AND reliablity. Not fair at all.

[Spec-944#70]

He WAS offered a 944 Spec car but rather than chance damageing it he drove his 911 and took last. I suppose you would rather he borrowed a 944 Spec car and win? So tell me what the difference is if he borrowed the 944 Spec and came in last rather than the 911? He'd still have the same amount of points?

[944-Spec#94]

He WAS offered a 944 Spec car but rather than chance damageing it he drove his 911 and took last. I suppose you would rather he borrowed a 944 Spec car and win?

 

I have no problem with ANY DRIVER in any spec legal car winning races and earning points. Frankly if Michael Schumacher came by and borrowed a 944 spec I would not mind if he took toyo money and first place points. He deserved it.

 

As long as the car is legal.

 

So tell me what the difference is if he borrowed the 944 Spec and came in last rather than the 911? He'd still have the same amount of points?

 

Hmm... could it be driving a class legal car?

 

So if I bring a GT3RSR to a POC event can I get R9S points as long as I finish last?

 

It is so difficult to see why drving the WRONG car in any class should earn points for that class?

 

Really....

[Spec-944#70]

So what you're saying is he should have drove the 944 Spec car offered and take the chance of damaging it? Because he owns a shop if anything would happen to the car it would be his headache. The fact that the car had an old tired motor? So the fact that he did have the opportunity to use a Spec 944 and just chose to use the 911 (with Pete's O.K. ) and not have to be responsible for the other guys 944 he should not get points?Anyhow that's fine. Next time someone breaks down we'll need to make sure they don't run in anything but a 100% Spec legal car to get points. Tires included because the rules say

"14.6 Tires

In the spirit of competitiveness the following size and model is the spec tire as of December 1, 2002:

 

225/50/15 Toyo RA1

 

NOTE: Competitors may still be allowed to participate on other tires but will not be awarded points or prizes. They still must affix the Toyo Tire stickers to their cars regardless.

So Dwain should have borrowed the 944 Spec car and finished last to get the points. Just as he did in a non Spec car.

Not a problem.

I still don't agree but rules is rules.

[PeanutinCA]

Eric, you seem to be taking this personally, that we are attacking your girlfriend, oops I mean buddy. (joke mate, joke) No seriously, it's not about Dwain. Initially it was the shock of him driving a Cup Car (as reported by Jim) for me. But Cup Car, 911, other 944 Spec, Tricycle, it's where do we define what is a DNS/DNR? Forget what happened at TH and leave Dwain's name out of it. Because again, it's not about him (for me). It's about other driver's (Pete at Laguna) not getting points for placing because they couldn't, or didn't want to get and drive another car. It's a tough one, I'm sure when people break most of us offer up a car if we can? So, hmmmm, like I said, not sure what to think about it? And it's a tough one to regulate. You can't make rules for every case. So you either make a hard and fast rule that nobody can do it, or that everybody can do it. The problem is, not everybody would be able to do it. So does that mean the rule should be that nobody can do it? I guess as Jim said to me, if my car broke, he would offer up his (for a TT). And he's right, we would. I'm actually happy to hear that Pete gave Dwain his car for the TT, because I think that was in good spirit. And I'm glad that Dwain didn't go out and set a blinding lap and claim a super low track record when his car was not running. It's nice that Dwain was able to ask and that Pete was able to give. That's what is good about the class.

 

So, back to the original question. Who is the DNR/DNS rule good for then? And the associated 1 point?

 

P.Dilly.

[Spec-944#70]

I'm not taking it personally but this means if your car breaks you should get a DNS. Period. Because not all of us have the resources to borrow a car. You breaky you no racy!!!