garyk Posted November 16, 2004 Share Posted November 16, 2004 So, is there any chance of allowing 350 TPI engines in 3rd gen CamBirds? If the fourth gens can run 350ci, why not allow the 3rd gens to? Yeah, I have motivation for asking this...I have a complete 350 TPI engine I could drop into my soon to be (hopefully) CMC 89 Firebird rather than hunting down a 305. And I know somebody else that would probably join the series if the 350 configuration was allowed, since that is what is in his car (already has a t5 trans). If the hp and tq limits are met, why not? Just wondering... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keith Posted November 17, 2004 Share Posted November 17, 2004 If they allow them, then I will just HAVE to get a 3rd gen... Interesting question and I'm interested in the answer as well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Al F. Posted November 17, 2004 Members Share Posted November 17, 2004 Unfortunately its not quite as simple as peak hp/tq numbers, rather total area under the curve. Its something we've discussed, but havent approved yet. There is a lot of research that still needs to be done, as well as some testing before this is OK'd. We'd need to ensure this wouldn't create an advantage. Keith's quick reply shows that if we simply allowed it under the current rule set, it would be preferable. The point would be for it to simply not matter. Its not out of the question, its just not in the immediate future. Don't look at this as a bad thing...look at it as evidence we're not going to change some rule all willy-nilly and make your car uncompetitive Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keith Posted November 17, 2004 Share Posted November 17, 2004 Good point about the area under the curve versus peak numbers. The L98 to a torque monster. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tony G Posted November 17, 2004 Share Posted November 17, 2004 Al said it right to the point,as we have tried this a few years ago. Then think if we allowed the 350 in a 3rd gen,what about the 99% of the guys who have a 305, you just know everyone would have to go out and buy a 350 now. Same goes with the Mustang,allow 351's,I'd be putting one in my car tonight if that was allowed. For now we keep the 305,but as the 305 gets harder to locate, a change to the 350 with a restrictor may me a good idea down the road. One thing I would like to see is someone with a 3rd gen restricting down their 350 to 230/300 and send me the Dyno,if its the same as the 305 then we may have something to talk about here...any takers?? I'm open to that idea to start. Tony Guiaglione Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
garyk Posted November 17, 2004 Author Share Posted November 17, 2004 Well, my reason for inquiring is that I have a 350 TPI engine to put in the car. But, I have not yet located a 305. Maybe if I don't find a 305, I'll try the 350 with restrictor plates and see what the curves look like, and just run for fun. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tony G Posted November 17, 2004 Share Posted November 17, 2004 Great idea,let me know what you find,maybe you wont even need a restrictor. Keep in touch with me. 916 933-5750 Tony Guaglione CMC Chief Director Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bsim Posted November 17, 2004 Share Posted November 17, 2004 Allowing 350's in 3rd gens will require everyone to get one. No question. Restricting the 350 to get to 305 levels will result in fatter, power curve. The peaks may be equal, but the 350 will get there faster, and stay there longer. Unless the 3rd gen weights are moved to equal the 4th gens, I don't see how this will keep things 'competitive'. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robert Canine Posted November 18, 2004 Share Posted November 18, 2004 Having run 305's and 350's in 3rd gen F bodies, I've found that there is no question that the 350 provides a significant torque advantage at the equal horsepower rating. I agree with Brian that if 350's are made legal in 3rd genss then every third gen racer will be switching over defeating the economy intent of the CMC class. Every racer looks for an edge and the 350 would be one, no matter how it's restrcited, unless it is so restricted that it defeats the purpose of allowing it and no one will use it anyway. There is still a plentiful supply of 305's out there...enough for twenty more years of CMC racing. If you want to run a 350, get a 93 up F body for which the formula of weight and restriction seems to work very well. Resist making this option of a 350 available. There is a negative financial impact to the series and no need from a supply standpoint to allow it. Bob Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Borden1548534711 Posted December 21, 2004 Share Posted December 21, 2004 Why not just add a weight penalty like the 4th Gens have? Or, drop the HP/TRQ numbers 10-20 hp lower than the 305 numbers. There is always a way to equalize it. If this was considered, you can start with a more aggressive weight or HP/TRQ restrictions and work up from there. David Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kevin Hall Posted December 22, 2004 Share Posted December 22, 2004 Gary, We've got a 305 out of an 80 Camaro, freshly built and sitting on the engine stand in the garage. We built it for my son's 90 RS, with the CMC legal cam, we had some issues with compatibility with his computer that made it not feasible. It should work with a carb and non computer controlled HEI just like the one we have in our CMC car, as that is what the boy was trying for when he built it. If you are near SoCal, maybe we can work a deal. Kevin Hall #82 CMC Camaro Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bsim Posted December 22, 2004 Share Posted December 22, 2004 Why not just add a weight penalty like the 4th Gens have? Or, drop the HP/TRQ numbers 10-20 hp lower than the 305 numbers. 1) The difference between the 305 and the 350 isn't just the numbers, it's WHERE the numbers are. More HP and TQ well below the max is the problem. More like at 2500 RPM for the 305 could be 150 HP vs. 170 HP for the 350. 2) 350's didn't come stock in 5-speed 3rd gens. Although, if this gets pushed through - there's not much more of an argument that I could build a 383 stroker motor, and just 'restrict it' to the numbers. So what if I have 300 TQ from 1100-4500 RPM, flat as a table? I guess my thought is this - wanna run a 350 - then go AI... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tony G Posted December 22, 2004 Share Posted December 22, 2004 Brad has the points well covered..Soooo.. I can make this real simple. No 350's in a 3rd gen..didnt we already say this in a previous post a long time ago?? Want a 350 buy a 93 up car. So far the system has worked perfectly,as no 350 Camaro has been dominant over any 305 Camaro,and actually the 305's have placed better so far in points. Putting a 350 into a 3rd Gen,hey than can I put a 351 in my Mustang...see what I mean. Tony Guaglione Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kevin Hall Posted December 23, 2004 Share Posted December 23, 2004 Hey, Didn't Brad sell his car? If so, is it legal for him to post using a picture of his black car? I can't wait until March and California Speedway. Happy Holidays everyone. Kevin Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted July 27, 2005 Share Posted July 27, 2005 I know this is probably opening up the can of worms again, but what if I ran the LT1 intake on an L98 [TPI 350] instead of the TPI? I would hate to have to sell a good 350 and find a 305. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Al F. Posted July 28, 2005 Members Share Posted July 28, 2005 No worries about the can of worms opening...but the answer is still no. I know its a pain, but it'll be worth it in the end. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bsim Posted July 28, 2005 Share Posted July 28, 2005 Don't you have to do the auto to manual swap too? It's my understanding that 350s in 3rd gens ONLY came with autos... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted July 28, 2005 Share Posted July 28, 2005 Don't you have to do the auto to manual swap too? It's my understanding that 350s in 3rd gens ONLY came with autos... Took it to HPDE @ Autobahn Country Club in early July with the 350/auto and smoked 3rd gear in the automatic at the end of the second session on the first day. I just ran out of time to get the T5 in before that event, but track time with an auto is better then no track time at all. Al: No worries, just trying to save a motor swap. Probably better this way though, I can sell the converted LT1 intake and 350 and pick up a 305 cheap. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Richard Pryor1548534703 Posted July 29, 2005 Share Posted July 29, 2005 So, does this mean my 383 with the G Force transmission is a sick bird? you know, an ill eagle. Richard "childhood jokes flashback" Pryor Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Al F. Posted July 29, 2005 Members Share Posted July 29, 2005 Nothing you do is illegal Richard, just illadvised Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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