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New 3rd gen Brake upgrade option


cmc38camaro

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The changes in the 2005 rules allow the use of 1.25" think rotors and calipers from 98+ fbodies. I have done some research and thought I would share what I have found.

 

Adapting front late model f-body brakes to a 3rd gen car is similar in technique and difficulty as to fitting 1LE brakes to a lesser car or adding the Baer kit. Each of these implementations start out by modifying the spindles and adding a bracket to the spindle. The stock caliper carrier then bolts up to the new spindle bracket. A hub is created by taking a 1LE rotor and cutting out the hub assembly. Longer studs are installed and the rotor slides over hub. Normal 3rd gen brake lines are used to plumb the calipers.

 

So why do this? Cost, and durabilty would appear to be the answers. The Baer kit is not cheap to start with and the cost of a Baer rotor is shocking. 1LE brakes are not cheap either and parts like the caliper carrier are becoming scare. Besides most 1LE calipers have been thoroughly abused by the likes of us. I found a very long thread on 3rd gen.org that covers this topic. Out of the thread I identified a guy that was kit. So I gave him a call, not only does he sell a kit, he will also sell the individual pieces for those that want to save some money. His complete kit goes for something like $750 with street pad. A pair of hubs and spindle brackets go for $200. A rebuilt set of calipers and carriers go for $225. Of course you could always go the ebay route for calipers like on this auction 7938607461. I've also seen complete kits on ebay. Botton line here is that from a cost perspective this looks like a good alternative and with as beefy as the late model brakes are, I would expect that they will last.

 

There is some downside though. With the beefy nature of the late model brakes, they have to be heavier, how much I don't know. The late model pads cost about 50% more and they are thinner so may not last as long. The wider rotors have the effect of pushing wheel outwards so fender clearance problems may result. Or maybe we would have an excuse to start using rear offset GTA wheels up front. While on the subject of GTA wheels and clearance, thin wheel spacer discussed in another thread are required for caliper to wheel clearance on GTA wheels. The larger wheel cylinder volumes on the later model calipers may change pedal feel due to a change in brake hydraulic ratios. This could be compensated for by using a larger diameter master cylinder. I know there were different diameter master cylinders used over the year and models, but don't know the detail. Anyone have that detailed info?

 

Contact information for the kit and parts mentioned above is:

 

Ed Miller

[email protected]

704-806-7247 cell

 

Let Ed know you're a CMC racer to get the price mentioned above.

 

 

Mike

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Mike,

Great info on the brakes.

 

I have a question on the wheel spacer issue. Can we use wheel spacers if we wanted to put a rear wheel on the front of a 3rd gen? We've got 2 sets of wheels, and I'd love to use the GTA rear wheels any where on the car.

Kevin

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Kevin, Like Tony says, GTA rear offset wheels will fit and are legal on front. Running no spacers will move the wheel inward something like 5/8" or 3/4". This may cause interference problems with your brake ducting. I know of some of our competitors that have welded in an earlier steering stop to reduce any interference. If you do use spacers, you will have to upgrade your studs if you haven't done that already.

 

Mike

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I've been working on adapting the LS-1 brakes to first gen Camaro's for about two years and the 3rd gens for about 5 months. Machining the hubs is not difficult since the metal is pretty thin there. Mounting the LS-1 rotor on the machined 3rd gen hub positions the caliper away from the upright (spindle). This is important so that you can make room for an adapter bracket. Unfortunately this also causes a problem with the wheels. One wheel that I tried would not work because the wheel contacted the caliper. I have a set of 16 X 8 T/A honeycomb wheels but I haven't had time to try them. As for the master cylinder there are two basic types; Cars with rear disks have the large piston (7/8" or 1" I don't remember for sure) and cars with rear drums had the smaller piston (3/4"). I have the large piston in my car and the pedal effort is very high. I tried changing the brake booster but there was no change. As a note the 1LE cars used the drum brake (small piston) master cylinder. It is also important to have the right proportioning valve. Wihthout it the rear disks don't do much. After a 20 minute run at Thunder Hill my rear rotor temp was under 160 degrees. I have been talking to Tony and Al F. about putting a kit together for CMC cars. If there is enough interest I will do so. In the mean time I am waiting for the next HPDE day (January) to test the package. It would be good to have other wheels to test for fit. If I know there is a lot of interest I will put more effort into this. Please let me know. Thanks.

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We run an adjustable brake bias valve that seems to overcome the issue on the balance, it takes some dialing in but seems to work. The 1LE upgrade from Spohn worked well, and went to gether pretty easily. Do bring a reciprcating saw to trim the steering knuckle.

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