fastjohn Posted February 17, 2005 Posted February 17, 2005 Problem rules state: 8.8 Ballast " Each ballastpiece may not be taller than three inches or stacked higher than three inches. " My problem is with Roger in the car we are 200 lbs light, and that is a lot to add without going over three inches high. We'll probably have at least six holes in the floor, and a lead floor pan. Any clarification would or suggestions would be welcome! John #44 Quote
trackboss Posted October 4, 2005 Posted October 4, 2005 I mount ballast under the car. It is much safer this way. In a rollover there is always a chance it could come loose and severely injure or kill the driver. One way to do it is to weld some angle iron on the framerail and bolt the lead to that. Remember that lead is soft and with normal racing it will loosen. Check the bolts every so often. The floor pan is not a safe place to mount something heavy. Quote
Renntag1548534718 Posted October 13, 2005 Posted October 13, 2005 I mount ballast under the car. .... That is an excellent idea. But the rules state it has to be located in the vertical plane of the main hoop. Does this apply for mounting under the car as well? Quote
King Matt1548534716 Posted October 13, 2005 Posted October 13, 2005 The rules state it may be mounted no further back than the vertical plane of the hoop, not that it must be on that vertical plane. Quote
Renntag1548534718 Posted October 13, 2005 Posted October 13, 2005 Then I guess mounting under is acceptable. Too bad it couldnt be mounted just rear of the hoop to balance weight front to rear. I dont know if this would be an advantage. I have always thought that 50/50 balance was optimum. Quote
Carson Posted October 13, 2005 Posted October 13, 2005 mounting balest under the car has a potential danger to others on the track,...ie if it came loose, danger to cars behind and or to track workers in case of flying lead in a roll over.. Quote
King Matt1548534716 Posted October 13, 2005 Posted October 13, 2005 You could say the same thing about a wheel, a fascia, a driveshaft, or any of numerous other items that could come loose from a moving race car. The fact is that properly mounted, ballast can be safely mounted under a car and the CCRs allow it. Quote
Renntag1548534718 Posted October 13, 2005 Posted October 13, 2005 Excellent point. given that lead is so soft it would be best to mount it in such a fashion that it could never come loose. If it were completely contained by angle steel secured to the subframe, I think that even if a car went end over end and had a total 'yard sale', the ballast in question would remain inplace. This is a great idea and will be how I mount mine. Thanks for the input. Quote
Carson Posted October 14, 2005 Posted October 14, 2005 ...mounting ballast OUTSIDE a race car ?? This can't be legal..it's plain not safe... Quote
Renntag1548534718 Posted October 14, 2005 Posted October 14, 2005 not safe? well if it isnt safe to have it outside, then how would it be any safer to have it inside with the driver? I'd rather have the balast outside under the car for lower GC. Quote
Carson Posted October 14, 2005 Posted October 14, 2005 do I have to explain that road racin is sliding the car around and thru coroners often over apex berms, scaping the underside of the car .these cars are low to start with, I just cant imagine why you would want to bolt a lead brick underneath the car. compared to bolting the lead bricks to the inside floor where it is protected from gettin knocked loose. Quote
Glenn Posted October 14, 2005 Posted October 14, 2005 i can see 2 sides to this argument. 1) ballast mounted outside the car that came loose would have a slim chance, but yes- a chance, of hitting another driver or worker. that lead would have alot of places it could go. what are the odds it would find a human target? 2) but, w/ ballast inside the car, the odds of hitting a human target is greater. but the person responsible for securing the ballast should be the only one @ risk of injury to loose ballast. why subject an innocent person to shadetree engineering? if its safe enough to be on the track, its safe enough to be in the car. its also less susceptible to getting damaged from a "John Deer" moment. plus a person is more likely to perform a visual inspection more frequently and notice when there is a problem w/ something failing or comming loose. when your ass is on the line, there's a better chance you will build it to "overkill" specs. this post was made by me for "healthy debate" porposes only, not to start rules change requests or a flame fest. just my thoughts. as for my ballast, well i was lucky enought to have my car meet minimum w/ about 1/4 tank of fuel. Quote
Renntag1548534718 Posted October 15, 2005 Posted October 15, 2005 do I have to explain that road racin is sliding the car around and thru coroners .... I know that is not what you meant to type..... Ballast mounted underneath could be attached in such a manner that it would survive ANY sort of off road or curb related mishap. I still think it is a great idea. I understand all other argued points. I just think that something coming loose shouldnt be an argument FOR inside mounting. Lets injure the driver! Quote
bsim Posted October 15, 2005 Posted October 15, 2005 For anyone considering doing this, I'd also contact your regional NASA tech inspector. I dodn't see anything in the CCR's, but ultimately they're responsible (i.e. insurance) - I'm sure they'd like a say too... Quote
bsim Posted October 15, 2005 Posted October 15, 2005 Dang Mitch - I think your cats eat as much as you do... Quote
Keith Posted October 15, 2005 Posted October 15, 2005 This is an interesting thread because I can see potential problems with mounting points inside and outside the car. Since my car will always be heavy, I guess I "don't have a dog in this fight" but what is determined as "best" could affect me. What do they do in World Challenge? Other touring car series? A-Sedan? Quote
Guest Posted October 15, 2005 Posted October 15, 2005 What do they do in World Challenge? Other touring car series? A-Sedan? It's been a while and I can't remember the website with the pics, but I saw a WC pic where the weight looked like a stack of steel plates bolted through the floor where the passenger seat would go. I believe it was the rewards weight in one of the Cadillacs if memory serves me right. Last weekend Bob Denton (AI #67) had to add weight to his car and he bolted some weight through the floorpan where the passenger rear seat bottom would usually be. Large washers were used on each side to spread the load to the floorpan to prevent the bolt wanting to rip through in case of a wreck. Quote
Carson Posted October 15, 2005 Posted October 15, 2005 i got a dawg that would like to eat that cat.... Quote
bsim Posted October 15, 2005 Posted October 15, 2005 What do they do in World Challenge? Other touring car series? A-Sedan? SCCA rule 17.9.1 Ballast: Ballast may be added to all cars as required, to meet minimum weight, provided it is securely mounted within the bodywork and serves no other purpose. Again, if your weight is outside the car, get signoff from a NASA official, as I doubt it's legal. Quote
King Matt1548534716 Posted October 15, 2005 Posted October 15, 2005 Last I checked we don't race in SCCA and our CCRs contain no such provision. Quote
bsim Posted October 15, 2005 Posted October 15, 2005 Oh, okay, we'll just strap Mitch's cat to the bottom of our cars, because "we're not them". Where do you think 'our' rules came from? I see you post over at the American Sedan forums too. Which 'we' are 'we'? SINCE there are no mention, I would ASK a NASA official. And you can be absolutely sure that if I'm on track against someone that has lead ballast outside their car, I will ask. Quote
Carson Posted October 15, 2005 Posted October 15, 2005 once upon a time in mexico .. I saw a car with a dead / flatten cat tied to the rear bumper of a '53 chevy with a bit of wire being dragged thru this small village.. this might have been a local custom or old mexican tradition or some sort of voodoo..I don't know... but I wouldnt want to follow that car around town just inc ase the wire broke.... Quote
r k drake Posted October 16, 2005 Posted October 16, 2005 Are you saying Matts a pussy... cat? Just wondering. Quote
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