bsim Posted August 9, 2005 Share Posted August 9, 2005 They still twist the wrong way on one side of the car! I love that look though. I did the 3rd gen wheels that way, with high temp grill paint. Nice and flat, they had to be REALLY dusted to look dirty... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lewis Tanner Posted August 9, 2005 Share Posted August 9, 2005 Personally, my suggestion to the rest of the board is to set a weight minimum for wheels around 16 or 17lbs and move on. Amen to that. Cost is a poor metric on which to base something like a wheel restriction because there's just too many variables in the marketplace. Define the materials and construction methods (aluminum/steel/magnesium-cast/forged/machined-one piece/welded 2 piece...) with specificity (a nice grid/table would probably make things easy in the rules), and state a minimum weight and a reasonable standard by which an unknown wheel can be "authenticated" and leave it at that. If someone sees fit to buy a $500 wheel that meets the same rules that could be met with a $250 wheel, that's their thing. If they want to cheat and get that 1-2 lbs off of each wheel in some manner, I'm not going to lose sleep over them doing it. Oh, and Todd... a tangent, but 12 lbs of unsprung weight reduction may save a second per lap on a little formula car, but I think we're talking something closer to .1 second per lap on a setup like ours. Potential advantage? Maybe, but you have to be absolutely fantastic to work that into a consistent win and you'd probably be the class of the field (like me )regardless. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Al F. Posted August 10, 2005 Members Share Posted August 10, 2005 Matt...you're not serious are you? I opened up Craigs list, typed in mustang wheel, and found two sets that can be had today in the first page alone. They both had tires on them, but its not a bad assumption the tires can be sold on their own. I was never aware of it being a problem to find used Mustang parts. I always figured the Corral was full of guys with old rims in their garage after putting on the bling bling dubs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GT4Point6 Posted August 10, 2005 Share Posted August 10, 2005 Matt...you're not serious are you? I opened up Craigs list, typed in mustang wheel, and found two sets that can be had today in the first page alone. They both had tires on them, but its not a bad assumption the tires can be sold on their own. I was never aware of it being a problem to find used Mustang parts. I always figured the Corral was full of guys with old rims in their garage after putting on the bling bling dubs. Most stock Ford (mustang bolt pattern) rims are 16x7.5, not sure there are any factory 16x8 rims. A lot of the V6 rims, and some base GT 16" rims are mistaken for 8" but are actually 7.5". How much of a difference would the 1/2 inch rim width make? Not sure. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lewis Tanner Posted August 10, 2005 Share Posted August 10, 2005 Matt...you're not serious are you? I opened up Craigs list, typed in mustang wheel, and found two sets that can be had today in the first page alone. They both had tires on them, but its not a bad assumption the tires can be sold on their own. I was never aware of it being a problem to find used Mustang parts. I always figured the Corral was full of guys with old rims in their garage after putting on the bling bling dubs. I'll send you a check for $100 if you can dig me up a set of OEM 16 x 8 Mustang wheels. The 255s are borderline on an 8" wheel, even moreso on a 7.5. I agree that it's one of those tenths of a second issues, but us Mustang guys have to buy an aftermarket wheel if we want all 8 inches. We could all clone Tony's car with his wheels... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
King Matt1548534716 Posted August 10, 2005 Share Posted August 10, 2005 Matt...you're not serious are you? Yes Al, as noted above I was serious. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rcpilot92 Posted August 10, 2005 Share Posted August 10, 2005 but us Mustang guys.........if we want all 8 inches. I'm not touching that one Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Al F. Posted August 10, 2005 Members Share Posted August 10, 2005 Well guys, its real simple from my perspective. I tried writing this over and over to make it sound right...but its 11:30 and I have to sleep, so forgive me if I sound annoyed. The wheel rule is not something new. It is, and always has been, an attempt to keep people from overspending to win races. That, in case you havent figured it out, is the entire purpose of CMC: to provide a place where rules are stable, affordable, and the cars are fun to drive. It hasnt been an issue because nobody went out and spent $3000 on a set of wheels before. I can tell you this, one way or another, the amount of benefit you can gain from throwing money at your wheels will be checked. End of story. Now, if the concern is that there are no adequate choices for Mustang drivers, I'm all ears. I know of four different ones that are brand new in a box for under $130, in true 16x8, one of which weighs 21lbs and another 20.5. Thats just as light as any gm wheel other than the gtas, which actually cost a bunch more than that. Salad shooters, by the way, weigh 21lbs, and so do all the other 4th gen five spokes. I weighed them myself with Tim Bullock as a witness. I have yet to have anyone with a CMC mustang declare outright that 7.5" wheels are not useable, but if you have data to back that up, speak up. Toyo lists a rim width of 7 to 9 inches for our tire size, just in case you wonder what rim they expect you to mount these on. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jeffburch Posted August 10, 2005 Share Posted August 10, 2005 Regarding GTA wheels. I recently acquired 2 sets with the front offset (8 wheels). On average I spent $125ea delivered. Some as low as $71.00 Rears (may work on 4th gens) are thick on Ebay. $75 a pair. jb Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keith Posted August 10, 2005 Share Posted August 10, 2005 I assume that any wheel used by a competitor today will be permitted to run into the future? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Al F. Posted August 10, 2005 Members Share Posted August 10, 2005 Part of the work involved in editing a rule to clear up intent is researching who is running what to make sure you dont put anyone out. We'll do that. If you own a set of wheels that you arent sure about, email your favorite director and explain what the wheels are, your concern. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mitchntx1548534714 Posted August 10, 2005 Share Posted August 10, 2005 email your favorite director and explain Well, that would be you, Al !!!!! I just LOVE my TA 5 spokes ... straight AND with a twist Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tacovini Posted August 11, 2005 Share Posted August 11, 2005 email your favorite director and explain Well, that would be you, Al !!!!! I thought I was your favorite Director!?!?!? -=- Todd Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jeffburch Posted August 11, 2005 Share Posted August 11, 2005 email your favorite director and explain Well, that would be you, Al !!!!! I thought I was your favorite Director!?!?!? -=- Todd might be a chevy thing! jb Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
racercosmo1548534707 Posted August 12, 2005 Share Posted August 12, 2005 So is there going to be a brand limit, or weight limit, or dollar limit on wheels? I have 3 sets of A sedan wheels in the garage that are 16x8 2 piece welded, and weigh about 16 lbs each. I think the origanl cost on them was about $180 each 10 years ago. Will inflation modify the price cap for them? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bsim Posted August 12, 2005 Share Posted August 12, 2005 I want to recant my earlier statement: Now, if I wanna spend $3,000 per 15# wheel (legally), I should be able to.Of course that's an outrageous figure, but I think I was missing the point. The rules are supposed to eliminate buying speed and or time. This class is supposed to be a driver's series - where most everyone is on an even playing field, using mostly stock cars and parts as they were delivered from the factory. If one make is better than another in some areas, so be it. This is how the early days of Trans-Am were (and what CMC was modeled after). The rules (and dollars) got out of control, which spelled the end of an era. I don't want that happening here. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Al F. Posted August 12, 2005 Members Share Posted August 12, 2005 Nothing is set, other than the fact that the wheel rule is on the list of things to consider altering for next year. It might not change at all...but given the quantity of angst that the last few weeks have created...it makes sense to clarify this one and leave out all ambiguity Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Glenn Posted August 12, 2005 Author Share Posted August 12, 2005 (edited) .... Edited May 26, 2006 by Guest Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tacovini Posted August 12, 2005 Share Posted August 12, 2005 i agree. Who are you, and what have you done with Glenn!?!?! (Lucifer just called and asked to turn up the heat...he said it's freezing down there!) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Glenn Posted August 12, 2005 Author Share Posted August 12, 2005 (edited) ..... Edited May 26, 2006 by Guest Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
King Matt1548534716 Posted August 12, 2005 Share Posted August 12, 2005 The rules are supposed to eliminate buying speed and or time. I need the one where the smilie is rolling on the ground laughing and pounding his fist with uncontrollable laughter, like I'm doing right now! Brad, you mentioned the purity of the "early" days of Trans Am. Have you read Donahue's Unfair Advantage? If not, get a copy and then tell me what you think about how simple and pure racing was back in those days. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bsim Posted August 13, 2005 Share Posted August 13, 2005 I read it. What it was SUPPOSED to become and DID become are two different things. Would YOU like that to happen here? The thing that makes me wonder is that these rules weren't "vauge" for 7 years. If they were, a question was asked, and an answer given. What changed lately? Why is that suddenly not good enough? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Glenn Posted August 13, 2005 Author Share Posted August 13, 2005 (edited) .... Edited May 26, 2006 by Guest Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bsim Posted August 13, 2005 Share Posted August 13, 2005 Agreed Glenn. But: why would i want to give all my thoughts to that person and basically tell him what i'm doing to win.Everyone should know, especially are regional coordinator. This is NOT the SCCA - where guys have teams of guards around their cars keeping any prying eyes at bay, and forcing official 'protests' for alleged rules violations. Ask anyone here on the west coast what springs they run, and they'll tell you. Climb underneath that other guys' car to see his new shocks - it's NOT secret world. If everyone knows what everyone else is doing, the rule stretching is kept at bay. Everyone is allowed to build their cars to the extent of the rules, and always have been. If someone goes over, that's called cheating. See rule 7.3 - eventually, they're gone. So build your car within the rules. If you have a question, get it answered. So what if guy #2 builds a car that goes past the rules? Let HIM deal with the suspensions and penalties becuse HE didn't ask for clarification. how can i do that when i have to fugure out/quess at one's intent?I think everyone has been VERY clear on what the intent is - keep things SIMPLE, STOCK, and rely on the DRIVER for an advantage. I guess all I'm asking is that we stop trying to 'lock down' the rules for something someone else might do - because there are consequences for that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mitchntx1548534714 Posted August 15, 2005 Share Posted August 15, 2005 Very valid points, Brad. And I am begining to "understand" what the intent is. It took time and a couple races to "understand". However, and I think my history with all you folks indicates that for someone that doesn't have years old relationships with you guys, that there is much angst and gnashing of teeth learning the "intent". I hope you folks can understand all the "Why?" questions. It's tough to figure this stuff out, especially something as intangible as "intent". Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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