Jump to content

NEW SUPER CMC CLASS INFO


Tony G

Recommended Posts

This was released at the Championship races this past weekend.

The details are not in stone yet as we are working on a few adjustments,but what is in stone is there will be a new group/class within CMC for 2007.

 

The entire purpose is to give those pony cars that were previously not allowed into CMC a place to run that does not involve the level of cost and preparation/fabrication that AI does. We are in no way trying to encroach on AI and there is still a huge difference between the two.

 

Starting next year, we'll have a new group within CMC: CMC-S. We will maintain separate points for this new group, but it will run with the existing CMC group. There will be one rule book for CMC and CMC-S. All of the current rules will apply to the new CMC-S cars, with the following exceptions:

 

We're targetting a Hp/Tq baseline of 280/300 with weight of 3200lbs, with some wiggle room above that running added weight (similar to current). This provides a weight/power ratio exactly half way between current CMC and current AI. Exact weights for each of the platforms will be announced later, they might not all be the same, and might not be exactly 3200. At the end of the day though, CMC-S cars will have more power and better weight/power ratios than current CMC rules allow.

 

Allowed motors (and therefore cars): LS1, 05+ Mustang GT 3 valve 4.6, 03-04 Mach1 DOHC 4.6, 96-01 Cobra (no Cobra R) normally aspirated DOHC 4.6.

 

Maximum front rotor diameter of 13" (stock on Cobras, simple upgrade on F-cars), factory style dual piston calipers up to 44.5mm (this includes all current as well as 05+ 43mm for Fords), we will also allow the 40mm C5 calipers on CMC-S F-cars as an upgrade to keep up with the bench racers.

 

Choice of current 255/50R16 or 255/40R17. This 17" tire has the same section width, and same static loaded radius as our current tire

 

With this, the only cars of significant manufactured volumes not included are the 93-95 Cobras. These 93-95 Cobras, rated at 235-240Hp/285Tq, will be allowed in CMC as normal CMC cars. Folks running these motors will be allowed restrictors if necessary to get under 230. If nothing else this provides a legal alternative intake,cam,TB, etc. for 5.0 cars to make up some power. With this, every Camaro, Firebird, and Mustang has a place to run, and should proove to result in an increase of cars on the track. There are only a handful of models left out, and these were not made in big enough numbers to worry about: the Cobra Rs and the '97 35th Anniversary F-Bodies.

 

There are of course a lot of smaller details that need to be worked out, and we'll do our best to cover everything over the next few months. Given that there is a lot of "new" and in this world of amateur racing there hasnt been a lot of track testing, we expect to have to massage a few things here and there as we learn.

 

At this point there are bound to be a lot more questions than answers, but here are a few we've already come up with:

 

Are F-body SS and WS6 cars legal? - Sort of, by making them not be an SS. Simply remove/disable SS components (factory ram air hood and ram air compatible intake) then they're no longer an SS, and therefore legal.

 

I have a current 01 Mustang that I run in CMC with a restrictor to get down to 230hp, but I want to remove the restrictor and run CMC-S...can I? Yes, any of the existing allowed cars can choose to run CMC-S but there are no incremental modifications allowed for them to make up the power difference.

 

I just blew up my LT1. Can I install an LS1 in it and run CMC-S? - Yes, you can update older cars with newer motors: LS1 into an LT1, 4.6DOHC into a 4.6SOHC etc. Ford 4.6 3valve cannot be installed in anything other than an 05+, similar to how LT1s arent allowed in 3rd gens.

 

Are other LT-x and LS-x derivatives such as the LT-4, LS-6 etc allowed? NO

 

I found this trick XXXX part off an 06 Mustang. Can I run it in my CMC 95GT? No. 05+ Mustangs will be treated like 4th gen F-bodies with regards to update/backdate rules.

 

Since you're going to allow CMC-S F bodies to run Vette brakes, can I run those Vette calipers in my CMC 4th gen? Maybe. As we do every year, we'll be revisiting the CMC rulebook this fall and addressing concerns, clarifications, suggestions. We know a lot of 4th gen drivers have caliper spread issues, and we'll revisit that again.

 

Much more to come.

Shoot me or Al Fernandez emails for questions.

Thanks,

Tony Guaglione

 

(edited by Al on 9/18)

Edited by Guest
Link to comment
Share on other sites

This is a perfect addition to the CMC,AI,AIX triumverate....with a plethora of reasonably priced 1998 up 4th gens out there this class should mushroom...and wouldn't it be fun to prep a 2006 Mustang for CMC Super...we've already got a 1999 Camaro under build to the CMC-S rules and will debut it at Sears Point in 3 weeks and run for fun...and to shake it down....stop by and check it out...it's for sale, of course...rp

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Sounds interesting, and no doubt there will be a lot of questions/comments/etc on this thread...

 

To be honest, I don't know how I feel about this proposed class, but do have one question today, to see if I understand something correctly.

 

re:

 

With this, the only cars of significant manufactured volumes not included are the 93-95 Cobras. These 93-95 Cobras, rated at 235-240Hp/285Tq, will be allowed in CMC as normal CMC cars. Folks running these motors will be allowed restrictors if necessary to get under 230. If nothing else this provides a legal alternative intake,cam,TB, etc. for 5.0 cars to make up some power. With this, every Camaro, Firebird, and Mustang has a place to run, and should proove to result in an increase of cars on the track. There are only a handful of models left out, and these were not made in big enough numbers to worry about: the Cobra Rs and the '97 35th Anniversary F-Bodies.

 

 

Does this mean parts from 93-95 Cobras can be used on a '94 Mustang GT within CMC?

 

thanks,

chris

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Chris,

Like they say no question is a dumb question..well almost no question..unless someone asks "are we going to have teardowns at the Championships" hee hee hee..well did we...I think not.

Tony

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Members
Should this just be called "Camaro Challenge"?

 

Why would you think it shoul be? As it stands Fords have scored more points across all of the regions, and a Ford is the first ever CMC National Champion. Believe me, if any of the above combinations begins to feel like a class killer we will adjust accordingly. One of our goals is and will continue to be equality across the platforms.

 

Now...taking my director hat off...we all know Fords pretty much suck so I'm betting next years CMC-S champ will be driving a Camaro...like mine for example!!

Link to comment
Share on other sites

hmm...............

 

Well i have a General and a Blue oval in the garage and honestly dont believe one is better than the other.

 

Right now my street car (ford) is faster than my race car (chevy).

 

kyle

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Good shot Matt

 

The top ten finishers in the national say a lot about the parity in CMC. We had 5 Mustangs and 5 Camaros. There were 2 fox bodies, two 3rd gens, 3 SN95s and three 4th gens one of them running the 250HP higher weight option. Engines consisted of 3 LT1s, 2 TPIs, three 5.0 fuelies, a 4.6 and a 5.0 carb. About the only thing missing was a carb car from the general and a Pontiac.

 

Now off to shop for a LS1 powered f-body.

Mike

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Interesting with this "Super CMC" class.

This was brought up in a posting by me after talking to Sam Stowell, Posting was put on board 3/22/04, and completely slammed.

 

The Irony of all this is. I sold my car to Sam Stowell last year( as my racing headed in a different direction) .,and he has prepped it for "Super CMC" and it will debut next month at Infineon!

 

I am sure exited that "my" car finally will be where it should have been in the first place!

 

Per Helldin

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I would like to add a comment here;

In no way is CMC going anywhere and I don't want anyone to think anything will happen to CMC because it won't.

We have 100 built CMC cars that will always be running,so its going to take a long time to get 100 S CMC cars built and running too.

I myself will stay in CMC and will not be going into S CMC..( because I cant wait to pass some of the S CMC cars with my CMC car).

CMC is the core of the series and S CMC is for the new guys that may want to join in,the old guys who want a little change, and it also keeps us up with the years that go by with production models.

Just a giant happy family of cars.

Thanks,

Tony Guaglione

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Tony

I appreciate what you say. " Super CMC" will in no way or form be anything even close to what CMC is for Grassroots racing. However it is an awesome place for "retired and too old "SCCA T2 cars that need a place to run. And as for the passing "Super" cars with your CMC car. I remember back in -02 at BW (I think) where you cought up with my then AI car (although almost in S-CMC trim) and passed me. I do not think I have never been closer and felt safer with a pass than that, door handle to door handle in Talladega at 100 mph...

 

Per

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Eric,

No, the non listed cars cannot hop up their motors to run the 280hp as A/I is the class for that right now.

We want the S Class to be stock or actually under stock.

Remember we are all running together as one so if someone choses to go to S CMC from CMC we are not losing anyone.

It will take years before you see S CMC be as large as CMC.

The difference on the track between the two will be minimal at best...just look at James times at the Championships, they were better than 1/3 of the A/I field.

A great driver in CMC will kill a moderate driver in S CMC.

Tony Guaglione

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Eric, I'll let Tony give the "official" word, but I don't think so. I think the intent here is to allow a place for the newer, higher HP cars to play without de-modding them.

 

I don't think they (we) will allow adding mods (like cams, headers, heads, etc) on the older cars 'cause it would be much harder to police the rules. I think the rules will still be no "modded" motors.

 

But again, that's my take.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Should this just be called "Camaro Challenge"?

 

Why would you think it shoul be? As it stands Fords have scored more points across all of the regions, and a Ford is the first ever CMC National Champion. Believe me, if any of the above combinations begins to feel like a class killer we will adjust accordingly. One of our goals is and will continue to be equality across the platforms.

 

It just seems like this is a class for the Camaros. Most of the mustangs are struggling to make 230/300. The LT1s, however, are using restrictor plates to get down to those numbers. Most LT1s and LS1s are right at the CMC-S number with no mods.

 

All CMC-S does is give me a hard-on for a 4th Gen.

 

Now...taking my director hat off...we all know Fords pretty much suck so I'm betting next years CMC-S champ will be driving a Camaro...like mine for example!!

 

Looks like you answered your own question.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

We tested :

2005-2007 GT Mustangs 4.6 =278HP 290-295 Tq

1999-2004 Mustang GT 4.6 =250-260Hp 290Tq ( add little mods and your there)

1996-up Cobra 280-290Hp 300Tq

Also the Mach 1= near cobra figures

 

Does that help..not a Camaro Challenge by any means.

Tony Guaglione

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

×
×
  • Create New...