King Matt1548534716 Posted December 1, 2006 Share Posted December 1, 2006 You're right, it's not new to me. Last year I didn't understand why color and the name on the box were considered performance improvements, and I still don't. Kragen=Good, MSD=Bad, even if they are the exact same part. This makes even less sense since we are now allowing any brand of fuel injector, despite last year having to listen to directors telling us that ACCEL injectors weren't legal because of the marketing claims made on the box. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Glenn Posted December 1, 2006 Share Posted December 1, 2006 took me 5 minutes of searching. http://www.msdignition.com/coil_blaster_1_8200_8202_8223.htm not for your particulare part, but specs none the less. good reading here too. just checking the resistance thru the coil is not enough to compair to different brand coils. http://home.earthlink.net/~jimlux/hv/igncoil.htm thus the SIMPLE solution of OEM or OEM replacement thru typical national parts store chains. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
King Matt1548534716 Posted December 1, 2006 Share Posted December 1, 2006 I'm surprised it took you that long. I never said the resistence specs weren't available, I said they are the same as the stock specs. What else is there to compare besides a voltage claim? Since there is no factory spec on voltage, how can anyone argue that the MSD part meets or exceed it? How can you say one from Kragen meets or exceeds it? The bottom line is that people are assuming there is some notable performance advantage because marketing claims are being made. Anyone who has ever worked in the performance aftermarket, or in any marketing position for that matter, knows how much those are worth. How is it any different than the fuel injector situation? Also, the other link you provided proves that there is a difference even between "generic" parts store brand coils. Again, all it comes down to is the color and the name on the box. All of this reinforces my argument, so thanks for the backup. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
King Matt1548534716 Posted December 1, 2006 Share Posted December 1, 2006 Compare this paragraph from the second link you provided to the claims MSD makes about windings and voltage: The conventional (Kettering) spark ignition system in automotive applications uses a coil which performs the dual functions of energy storage and voltage step up. It is typically about a 100:1 turns ratio. DC power is applied, producing a current of about 5 Amps through the 8 mH primary inductance, storing about 100 mJoule of energy. When the current is interrupted the points opening, (The points are a set of contacts mechanically driven by a multilobed cam synchronized to the engine), the voltage rises (L di/dt) to around 300-400 volts, which is stepped up to around 30-40 kV (open circuit) in the secondary. So let's review. The coil's case is physically identical except for color, it has the same number of internal windings, it has the same primary and secondary resistence, and it provides the same voltage output. But it's red, so it's illegal. Makes sense to me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Glenn Posted December 2, 2006 Share Posted December 2, 2006 i duno Matt. there, you win. your right. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FBody383 Posted December 2, 2006 Share Posted December 2, 2006 The stock Ford 5.0L dual-snorkle aircleaner is legal, provided it's stock, and is bolted to the stock location. This was clarified by Tony G earlier this year in writing. It was looked at pretty closely at the Nationals by Sam Stowell, too. Sorry if it's well worn ground but tell the new guy how that makes sense if the rule is: 8.24 Air Filter - "Any commercially available air filter or air filter assembly may be fitted and modified. Air boxes and filters must reside inside the engine compartment or in the OEM stock location." To me the rule reads I could modify the Ford part and use it on a GM as long as I don't create a "ram air effect." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tony G Posted December 2, 2006 Share Posted December 2, 2006 No, you need to read the rules to see where you are incorrect. Hint: A Ford is not a Chevy...see class I.D. info. Tony Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FBody383 Posted December 2, 2006 Share Posted December 2, 2006 No, you need to read the rules to see where you are incorrect.Hint: A Ford is not a Chevy...see class I.D. info. Tony Hmmm... an-y [en-ee] one, a, an, or some; one or more without specification or identification "commercially available" to me means I can buy it new or used and even trade for it. Which doesn't mean much since it can be modfied any way and can be in the stock location or reside inside the engine compartment. If the rule is being interpreted to read: "The original air filter or air filter assembly may be repalced with any OEM or OEM replacement part specified for according to 4. ELIGIBLE MANUFACTURERS/MODELS" then say that or remove "any," "commercially available," and "modified." Tony, no offense but I prefaced this as being new to the game. I have spent some time with Mitch and Glenn to see if this class was right for me. I don't mind the push back but if the point you're making is via 5. ALLOWED MODIFICATIONS then 8.24 is still bad since it allows for "any," "commercially available," and regardless of that, "modified." If there is a better way for me to flush out these kind of interpretations other than this forum, I'm game. A Texas Smokey Yunick fan, Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
King Matt1548534716 Posted December 2, 2006 Share Posted December 2, 2006 Rule 8.24 does allow any commercially available air cleaner, but it also stipulates that "Air boxes and filters must reside inside the engine compartment or in the OEM stock location." The bold portion clearly makes the Ford dual-snorkel system legal on cars originally equipped with it, but I would also interpret that to mean that if your stock air filter system does not draw air from the fender area, then you cannot modify it to do so or substitute a system that does. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jeffburch Posted December 2, 2006 Share Posted December 2, 2006 You possibly might wanna revisit the last paragraph of section 3.2 jb Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Glenn Posted December 2, 2006 Share Posted December 2, 2006 the part about OEM or OEM replacement is the key part. i cant buy a K&N air intake kit for a ford and use it on my GM. i cant convert my 4th gen to use the 3rd gen airbox. the part used must be used on its designed application. using my name along w/ Mitch's name is gonna hurt your good name. shoot me an email to Glenn_Landrum at msn dot com and we can kick this around. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tacovini Posted December 4, 2006 Share Posted December 4, 2006 I'm confused (again) as to what the issue is. Stock air cleaner assemblies are approved. Replacement air cleaner assemblies are approved. Anything that starts to introduce a ram-air effect is illegal. What do you want to do (pics help a lot) and we'll let you know if it's allowed or not. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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