mcmmotorsports1548534724 Posted March 20, 2007 Share Posted March 20, 2007 How many of you guys are running PBR calipers and how many are running the stock single piston stuff? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike D1548534719 Posted March 21, 2007 Share Posted March 21, 2007 my 89 gt has the bear 4 lug A sedan set up with dual pistons on front single on back. Mike d Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GT4Point6 Posted March 21, 2007 Share Posted March 21, 2007 May want to clarify, or maybe not, but some use the stock (11"?) 99-04 GT dual piston set up and some use the Cobra PBR with cutdown 12" rotors. Both are really good compared to the single pisont setup. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mcmmotorsports1548534724 Posted March 21, 2007 Author Share Posted March 21, 2007 May want to clarify, or maybe not, but some use the stock (11"?) 99-04 GT dual piston set up and some use the Cobra PBR with cutdown 12" rotors. Both are really good compared to the single pisont setup. Yeah, I meant the 99-04 GT setup. I had seen some 94-98 CMC cars with the single piston setup and was curious if the the 99-04 GT upgrade was worth it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CMC#11 Posted March 22, 2007 Share Posted March 22, 2007 May want to clarify, or maybe not, but some use the stock (11"?) 99-04 GT dual piston set up and some use the Cobra PBR with cutdown 12" rotors. Both are really good compared to the single pisont setup. Yeah, I meant the 99-04 GT setup. I had seen some 94-98 CMC cars with the single piston setup and was curious if the the 99-04 GT upgrade was worth it. I'd go with the PBR's. I have a fox and went to O'Reilly and got the reman. PBR's for about $50 each. You can get the rotor from an 04 Crown Vic. (12") and it bolts right up, $35 each. I did have one caliper start to stick on me after about 6 events but other than that they've worked great. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mcolangelo2005 Posted March 22, 2007 Share Posted March 22, 2007 May want to clarify, or maybe not, but some use the stock (11"?) 99-04 GT dual piston set up and some use the Cobra PBR with cutdown 12" rotors. Both are really good compared to the single pisont setup. Yeah, I meant the 99-04 GT setup. I had seen some 94-98 CMC cars with the single piston setup and was curious if the the 99-04 GT upgrade was worth it. I'd go with the PBR's. I have a fox and went to O'Reilly and got the reman. PBR's for about $50 each. You can get the rotor from an 04 Crown Vic. (12") and it bolts right up, $35 each. I did have one caliper start to stick on me after about 6 events but other than that they've worked great. I have PBRs with the 13" rotors on my track car. What caliper bracket do you use to run the 12" rotors? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GT4Point6 Posted March 22, 2007 Share Posted March 22, 2007 Two ways of getting this. Option one is to call Baer and tell them you need the brackets ($60 ea) for a 12" brake setup. I think they are called the "A Sedan" setup brackets or something like that. They should know what your talking about. These brackets are also drilled for the 13" set up so it can be used for both. Option two is to drill/tap new holes 1/2" inward of the current holes. I wouldn't attempt this without a good drill presss/machine shop. Several people have done this with great success. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mcolangelo2005 Posted March 22, 2007 Share Posted March 22, 2007 Thanks, Kevin. Sounds like Baer would be the best choice for me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gr8-96GT Posted March 22, 2007 Share Posted March 22, 2007 Hey kart driver, it cost me $60 to have the 13" rotors cut down and the braketts tap for. the 12" rotors fyi. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GT4Point6 Posted March 23, 2007 Share Posted March 23, 2007 Hey kart driver, it cost me $60 to have the 13" rotors cut down and the braketts tap for. the 12" rotors fyi. I've got a set but haven't put them on yet but you can get 12" Crown Vic(not sure what year) and 12" 03-04 Muarader front rotors cheaper than two 13's+cutdown cost. I'll put one of the 12" up against the cutdown 12" and compare and post pics this weekend. Some have already done this but not sure if they have to use any spacers. The Baer brackets will require a couple of spacers/washers to get it centered on the cutdown 13" rotors. Not sure on the 12" stock units. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nasa-rm Posted March 23, 2007 Share Posted March 23, 2007 I've got access to a set of '05 - GT brakes. Anybody know what kind of work it would take to use them on a 94-98? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adam Ginsberg Posted March 27, 2007 Share Posted March 27, 2007 I've got access to a set of '05 - GT brakes. Anybody know what kind of work it would take to use them on a 94-98? They can't be used on a 94-04 Mustang - different chassis. Check section 4 of the CMC rulebook, Eligible Manufactures/Models, and section 8.3 Update/Backdate Non-body Components. The 05+/S197 cars are listed as "late Ford", and "CMC-2 only" - no parts swapping between chassis' is permitted unless so noted in the CMC rules. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nasa-rm Posted March 29, 2007 Share Posted March 29, 2007 Good call Adam. CMC directors, we might want to clarify in the rules for brakes and plug this loophole and make the intent clear. The rule in 8.35.9.4 says that we can update/backdate brakes within the same mfg on the approved list. Unlike rule 8.3, it does not specifically rule out updating/backdating between early and late models. Also, sections 1-3 for rotors seem to indicate that I can replace the rotors with whatever I want provided they are proper size & steel. Is this the case? 8.35.9 Braking systems shall conform to the following specifications:1. The one piece front or rear hub with rotor may be replaced with a separate hub and rotor or separate hub, rotor hat and rotor. 2. Rotors shall be of a ferrous material only and may be vented. No cross drilling or slotting is allowed. 3. The maximum front and rear rotor size shall not exceed the following dimensions: a. All GM vehicles: 12.0†diameter and 1.25†thickness b. Early Ford vehicles: 12†diameter and 1.125 thickness c. Late Ford vehicles: 12.4†diameter and 1.25†thickness 4. Front calipers may be updated/backdated within cars of the same manufacturer on the eligible manufacturers/models list with the following exceptions listed below: a. All GM vehicles may use stock 98+ Camaro/Firebird 44mm dual piston calipers or C5 43mm dual piston calipers b. Early Ford vehicles may use stock SVO calipers. 5. The rear calipers may be updated/backdated within cars of the same manufacturer on the eligible manufacturers/models list with the exceptions listed below for Ford cars: a. unmodified 1984-1986 Mustang SVO rear caliper b. unmodified 1984-1987 Lincoln Mark 7 rear caliper c. unmodified PBR style 40mm single piston calipers used in Baer and Ford kits Now back to the fitment question.... hypothetically speaking, for example on a street car, do the 05- GT brakes fit on a 94-98? The reason I ask is if I can get these takeoff brake setups for next to nothing and can sell them on ebay I can get the $$$ to finish my car. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GT4Point6 Posted March 29, 2007 Share Posted March 29, 2007 Good call Adam. CMC directors, we might want to clarify in the rules for brakes and plug this loophole and make the intent clear. The rule in 8.35.9.4 says that we can update/backdate brakes within the same mfg on the approved list. Unlike rule 8.3, it does not specifically rule out updating/backdating between early and late models. 8.35.9 Braking systems shall conform to the following specifications:1. The one piece front or rear hub with rotor may be replaced with a separate hub and rotor or separate hub, rotor hat and rotor. 2. Rotors shall be of a ferrous material only and may be vented. No cross drilling or slotting is allowed. 3. The maximum front and rear rotor size shall not exceed the following dimensions: a. All GM vehicles: 12.0†diameter and 1.25†thickness b. Early Ford vehicles: 12†diameter and 1.125 thickness c. Late Ford vehicles: 12.4†diameter and 1.25†thickness 4. Front calipers may be updated/backdated within cars of the same manufacturer on the eligible manufacturers/models list with the following exceptions listed below: a. All GM vehicles may use stock 98+ Camaro/Firebird 44mm dual piston calipers or C5 43mm dual piston calipers b. Early Ford vehicles may use stock SVO calipers. 5. The rear calipers may be updated/backdated within cars of the same manufacturer on the eligible manufacturers/models list with the exceptions listed below for Ford cars: a. unmodified 1984-1986 Mustang SVO rear caliper b. unmodified 1984-1987 Lincoln Mark 7 rear caliper c. unmodified PBR style 40mm single piston calipers used in Baer and Ford kits . The 4. Front calipers may be updated/backdated within cars of the same manufacturer on the eligible manufacturers/models list with the following exceptions listed below. The underlined part is what clarifies it for me. IMO a CMC-2 only model car is not a eligible model for CMC. It's not just the manufacture, but model specific within CMC or CMC-2. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nasa-rm Posted March 29, 2007 Share Posted March 29, 2007 eligible manufacturers & models list ..... That works for me - I'll go back to work now finding a caliper setup that'll work legally on my 98. Now what about the rotors - are they open provided they meet 1-3? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adam Ginsberg Posted March 29, 2007 Share Posted March 29, 2007 Now what about the rotors - are they open provided they meet 1-3? CMC Ford's ( Fox3 and SN95 ) essentially have 3 options: 1. Stock Cobra rotors cut down to 12". ~$60-$80 per rotor, plus machining costs ( typically, $100 per set ). 2. 2003 - 2005 Crown Victoria, including police, Grand Marquis including Marauder, and Town Car including limo package all use the same front rotors. Ford number is 3W1Z 1125 AA, for reference. Cost is about ~$90 a pair from your local parts house. If you go this route, you'll need a .100 spacer between the caliper bracket and the spindle ( a nice grade 8 washer usually works perfectly ). These are 12" in diameter out of the box - no machining required. Folks in A/S and CMC have been using these with good success for about a year. 3. 2-piece rotors. Cost is much higher - about ~$500-$600 a pair. However, the rotors ( I get mine from Coleman Racing ) are pretty beefy units, and should last 2-3 seasons. Using an AL hat should allow better heat dissapation, thereby keeping the hubs cooler. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MHISSTC Posted October 5, 2007 Share Posted October 5, 2007 I'll put one of the 12" up against the cutdown 12" and compare and post pics this weekend. Got those pictures? To recap, clarify, and make sure I've identified all the right parts in going with this type of setup, if I have say...a '79 Mustang Coupe, or a '86 Mustang hatchback...I will need the following parts for this type of complete front brake caliper upgrade: - SN95 spindles and hubs - 12" '03-'05 Crown Vic rotors - '99-'04 Mustang GT PBR 45mm dual piston calipers - Baer Claw Sport caliper brackets (A-sedan/12" rotor setup) - a .100 spacer between the caliper bracket and the spindle - braided stainless lines for said calipers - misc bolts and fittings as needed to adapt the braided lines to the stock hard lines - applicable brake pads Additional questions: - Am I correct in thinking that I would use the '87-'93 struts for the SN95 spindles on a '79-'86 foxbody Mustang? - Am I also correct in thinking that, although there is better suspension geometry to be had by some of the later year pieces, I could use any '79-'04 front lower control arms and any '79-'93 foxbody V8 K-member? - Will the '99-'04 front calipers be OK to use with any stock '79-'93 master cylinder and rear axle with drum brakes? - In regards to the spacer needed between the caliper and the spindle, would this be a good place to kill two birds with one stone and mount some type of brake cooling duct attachment plate/braket thingy instead of using just washers as spacers? Also, here's the parts list from the king of all foxbody 5-lug conversion sites: http://mjbobbitt.home.comcast.net/mustang/5lug.html Front w/'99+ GT/V6 twin piston PBRs: 94-present Gt/V6 10.84" rotors (2) '99+ GT/V6 PBR calipers (2) '99+ Gt/V6 PBR caliper brackets (2) spindle to caliper bracket bolts (4): N805163-S190 1994+ spindles (2) (94-95 spindles will need to be ground to fit this calipers) Hubs (2) hub nut(2) dust cap(2) dust shields (2) : F4ZZ-2K005A , F4ZZ-2K004A ($7.70 each) SS brake lines designed for conversion - or - SN95 brake lines with Adapter Balljoint spacer or stack of 3 washers totaling .330" in height or press in Sn95 balljoints to the stock arms (MOOG brand) It's been a long time since I've looked this stuff up and I can't remember some of it off the top of my head. Thanks in advance for any guidance provided. Scott Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tacovini Posted October 6, 2007 Share Posted October 6, 2007 Careful with the home-cutting of 13" rotors guys. There's a right way and a wrong way to do it and we've seen where the wrong way creates too much heat during the cut down process and the rotors severely crack the first time out. -=- T Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MHISSTC Posted October 6, 2007 Share Posted October 6, 2007 So, what are the right ways and the wrong ways? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave Schotz Posted October 6, 2007 Share Posted October 6, 2007 Adam Wrote: Quote"3. 2-piece rotors. Cost is much higher - about ~$500-$600 a pair. However, the rotors ( I get mine from Coleman Racing ) are pretty beefy units, and should last 2-3 seasons. Using an AL hat should allow better heat dissapation, thereby keeping the hubs cooler." While I thought 2 piece rotors were legal... I thought they had to be of ferrous material. (Meaning Steel, Iron) and that an Aluminum Hat would not be legal in CMC? Is this correct or wrong? Thanks! Dave Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GT4Point6 Posted October 6, 2007 Share Posted October 6, 2007 Adam Wrote:Quote"3. 2-piece rotors. Cost is much higher - about ~$500-$600 a pair. However, the rotors ( I get mine from Coleman Racing ) are pretty beefy units, and should last 2-3 seasons. Using an AL hat should allow better heat dissapation, thereby keeping the hubs cooler." While I thought 2 piece rotors were legal... I thought they had to be of ferrous material. (Meaning Steel, Iron) and that an Aluminum Hat would not be legal in CMC? Is this correct or wrong? Thanks! Dave 8.35.9 Braking systems shall conform to the following specifications:1. The one piece front or rear hub with rotor may be replaced with a separate hub and rotor or separate hub, rotor hat and rotor. 2. Rotors shall be of a ferrous material only and may be vented. No cross drilling or slotting is allowed. I'm pretty sure the ferrous material part is for the rotor face. A few CMC divers across the country run two piece with alum hats. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Al F. Posted October 8, 2007 Members Share Posted October 8, 2007 Correct Kevin. The rotor has to be iron, the hat can be made of whatever you want, preferably something shiny to impress the other drivers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
j dawes Posted October 19, 2007 Share Posted October 19, 2007 so, let me see if i've got this right. for my 94 mustang gt with 16x7 wheels and stock everything, i could do the following: 1. 99+ mustang dual piston calipers 2. 12" ford crown vic [etc.] rotors [03 and up] here's where i get confused. what exactly needs to be modified to 'marry' these up to fit on my car? ie: 1. where do these 'spacers' go? between hub and rotor? between caliper and ??? 2. do i need to shave some of the length from the bolts for some reason? 3. do ALL of the attendant parts with the PBR dual piston calipers match up, or is there modification/grinding of some sort involved? if you hadn't noticed, i'm super duper noobie here. . . i'm setting my car up over the winter for driving events with CMC or CMC2 in mind as a goal. thanks for the help! jon in DC Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GT4Point6 Posted October 19, 2007 Share Posted October 19, 2007 so, let me see if i've got this right. for my 94 mustang gt with 16x7 wheels and stock everything, i could do the following: 1. 99+ mustang dual piston calipers 2. 12" ford crown vic [etc.] rotors [03 and up] here's where i get confused. what exactly needs to be modified to 'marry' these up to fit on my car? ie: Those don't go together. If you run the stock 99+ setup, you have to use the stock rotors, 11.xx dia. If you want the 12" set up, you have to get the "cobra" style caliper, caliper bracket from Bear and cut 13" rotors down or by the CV rotors. 1. where do these 'spacers' go? between hub and rotor? between caliper and ??? 2. do i need to shave some of the length from the bolts for some reason? 3. do ALL of the attendant parts with the PBR dual piston calipers match up, or is there modification/grinding of some sort involved? Spacers (washers) go between the caliper bracket and where the bracket bolts to the spindle. Stock bolts are fine. No grinding involved unless you run ASA JS5 rims, some of us had very little to zero clearnce from the inside of the wheel to the caliper and would scrape under load. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
j dawes Posted October 19, 2007 Share Posted October 19, 2007 ah, thank you. so if i were trying to 'make it easy' on myself, i could just go with the 99+ calipers and rotors. would i still need to use the shims if i chose this setup? thanks Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.