jeffburch Posted May 15, 2007 Share Posted May 15, 2007 CM, the same dyno from last year is due back this year. Seems like it WAS $75. jb Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Richard Pryor1548534703 Posted May 16, 2007 Share Posted May 16, 2007 There was a discussion some 5 years ago or so about the California CMC group buying a portable dyno to take to every track. Nothing ever came of it but it wouldn't be a bad idea to reexamine the idea. SCCA surcharged drivers $50 every race for almost 9 years in the San Francisco region..the resulting money was used to buy and build Thunderhill. Not a bad investment. CMC needs similar vision to plan for the future. With anticipated continued growth in the series I believe an onsite dyno at every race should be a series goal. I propose a $50 per weekend per car in CMC, AI and AIX for a dyno fund. It'll take years to obtain the dyno, but it is future planning and the need for an at track dyno will only grow as the number of competitors grows. Looking for a partner to operate the dyno is also a possibility as is the income from at track dyno sessions for CMC and other competitors. Financing is even available to help purchase the dyno. With the income stream generated from event surcharges this might be a viable idea. I could go on and on with a detailed plan but the idea is the main thrust of this post. How serious is CMC about a level playing field at each event? Start planning now for tomorrow. RP Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keith Posted May 16, 2007 Share Posted May 16, 2007 Gee, I dunno Richard. I understand what you are proposing but there are alternatives... We don't really have trouble getting a dyno to come to our events partly because the guy is "in the neighborhood" and partly because our organization ensures that it is financially worth his efforts to come to the events. Make it worth a guy's effort to show up as an independent business and "subcontract" the dyno operations instead of taking on the responsibilities of owning one. This will be a faster and cheaper resolution. As it stands today and from memory, the following classes have horsepower/weight limits: 1) CMC 2) AI 3) ST1/ST2 4) GTS (I think, not 100% on that one) 5) FFR (They are discussing it or have implemented it - not sure) With this many classes taking this approach, limiting it to just CMC is making it more expensive and going to make it take longer. If indeed our long term goal would be for REGIONS to have dynos then that is great. However, I would not be all that supportive of a surcharge to fund a dyno I would likely never see or be in a meaningful position to take advantage of (we have dynos at our events so why the heck would I want to pay for another one?). What exactly am I to do with a dyno that will most likely be located across the country and used at events that I will never run? I guess what I am saying is that with the number of classes using power limits to police the ruleset, the regions should make whatever arrangements works best for them to get a dyno at their events. I personally think that OH/IN has implemented the best possible solution. ...others may disagree but that is what keeps life interesting... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Glenn Posted May 16, 2007 Share Posted May 16, 2007 getting back on topic. the thing to remember here is its up to each person to be legal at the track, not just at the dyno they cert on. if you cert the car @ 6000 ft dont complain when they have a dyno at a track at sea level and ask you to dyno. its not the fault of anyone but you if you pop over the limit. all this new form does is prevent this. previously the only way to catch a person who was using this in their favor would be to dyno them. now this loophole is closed. as for car making the number @ higher elevations? well, the 4th gens could easily do this. so as long as one platform can, they all should be policed the same. in 2006 i pushed my numbers right to the limit at my home dyno (600ft). i knew that the dyno @ Mid Ohio would be at like 1300 ft and i would see a small power loss. thats what i saw when i dyno'ed. each region has different "issues" to overcome in order to be able to race. higher or lower fuel costs, longer driving distances, more heat, more snow, bla, bla, bla. now the RM guys will need to find a dyno that they all use and not worry about it, or they find one or two that will cover them @ most all tracks. is this possible? who knows, but i would be looking into it now if i was a RM region guy. i dyno'ed my car 7 times last yeaar. i've already done it 3 times this year. and i plan on @ least 2 more leading up to Nats. i spend alot of time ensureing my car is legal. i push the edge, but i pay for it w/ increased dyno costs. bottom line is, how much do you love racing? i really like it alot. i'll do what i need to in order to keep doing it and to keep winning. i'm done here. off to print the new sheet. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Richard Pryor1548534703 Posted May 16, 2007 Share Posted May 16, 2007 Keith...I just meant the fee surcharge to be applied to California...each region should address the question and answer in its own fashion..you already have with a "have dyno, will travel" vendor..you're fortunate...if you are going to have a hp controled class you need at track certification which CMC and NASA in California does not have...the more classes to participate in dyno purchase (perhaps it should be a NASA purchae and class surcharge as the hp/weight formula is sure to expand to other classes)....heck, I'll even buy one and have an operator at every west coast NASA event if NASA will enter into a 5 year exclusive contract..RP.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tacovini Posted May 17, 2007 Share Posted May 17, 2007 Regarding the cross-over event conundrum/brew-ha-ha... With a little data mining and Al's spreadsheet skills, you could put in a manual correction factor on a sliding scale (erring on the safe side). For example- "if track location is >1500' from dynosheet location, add 5% to #s." "if track location is >5000' from dynosheet location, add 10% to #s." This would "incentivize" those who needed it to get a new dynosheet...and still give a relief valve for those who either don't need to, or can't. Just a thought. -=- T Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keith Posted May 17, 2007 Share Posted May 17, 2007 Todd - that is where I was heading in my original replies... If you are looking for data points, I have quite a few dyno pulls from a couple of different locations. I can send you everything or summarize them by location/elevation and send you the information (or even post it right here). ...just say the word... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nasa-rm Posted May 17, 2007 Share Posted May 17, 2007 For example- "if track location is >1500' from dynosheet location, add 5% to #s." "if track location is >5000' from dynosheet location, add 10% to #s." I'm for that, provided it won't go the other way. Lowlanders shouldn't get a break on weight just because they are gaining altitude. In the end I think Tony, Al, JWL and myself will come up with a good compromise. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Al F. Posted May 23, 2007 Author Members Share Posted May 23, 2007 Right now anyone going from a low altitude dyno to a high altitude race is running with a handicap unless they re-dyno and adjust. Glenn's experience going to Mid-O bears that out. This change is intended to eliminate the much more dangerous reverse: those dynoing at high altitude and racing at low altitude can have an advantage, which has been proven and documented. It is not a random number, it is the elevation difference above which you press the calculation correction factor beyond SAE specifications. Call me if you want to understand the gory details. I certainly agree that this can be a PITA, and we will certainly strive to come up with something that can be used as a "bypass" in the medium term. In the mean time, you can always fun run if you dont have time to dyno your car. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
K Shaw Posted July 15, 2007 Share Posted July 15, 2007 ouch. To run Hastings I will be looking at.... Thursday 8 hr drive from Littleton Colorado to Hastings Nebraska. Friday 2 1/2 HR drive From Hastings Nebraska into Lincoln Nebraska. Dyno time at the ONLY certified Dyno within 500 miles given that they have the time to get the car on the dyno. 2 1/2 hr drive back into Hastings Nebraska. Saturday fun time Sunday fun time Monday 8 hr drive back home. whew. Thats alot of work to watch my little LO3 dyno 170 hp in Colorado and then Dyno 180 hp in Nebraska and get my arse handed to me. Now whats going to happen when I switch over to the spec carb motor and have to note jet sizes on my dyno sheet when I have to change the jet sizes to get the car to even run when going from 6k to 1500 ft. kyle Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
raybob92891548534723 Posted July 20, 2007 Share Posted July 20, 2007 Well put Kyle,,,, I really don't think you'll see any midwest CMC cars at Hastings anyhoo. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
K Shaw Posted July 24, 2007 Share Posted July 24, 2007 Hey. I can actually go racing as of this weekend. woo hoo. kyle Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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