Where to buy Racetech side net

[mitchntx1548534714]

In all fairness, MY intent was to install a net for 08.

 

The bolt on bolster was a stop gap measure so that I could take my time and do a proper install of the net and allow the necessary time to lapse so my sponsor could get their net SFI certified. My dash needs to come out in order to accomplish the install. According to the rule, a bolster was acceptable.

 

So, now it appears I'm done for the season, based upon Tony's explanation.

Edited August 16, 2007 by Guest

[Glenn]

and just to vent a little here publicly.

this is a fine example of piss poor rules writing and knee jerk reactions to safety. its this type of thing that causes people to wait till the last possible minute to comply w/ a new rule out of fear its going to change on them at the last minute. in this case it wasn't the last minute, it was 1.5 months later. a big f u to all those who were proactive in complying to the new rule.

[FBody383]

The problem that has been found so far is that some of the side seat extensions on some seats suck so bad you can bend them with your hand,however the good ones like above are legal and will be.

Does this imply there is a list of "good ones" or are we still on our own to figure that out?

 

Best thing to do is to make sure your side protection net or seat side mount extension won't break down in a real life situation.

Ok, what is the accepted test methodology?

 

 

So in tech you will be inspected to make sure its in working order,and if we can bend your aluminum side plate then you failed the test.

What's the test? Are we also going to test seat mounting? battery mounting? fire bottle? steering column?

 

Hope this helps a bit.

To be fair, I think it does - a bit.

 

...this is a fine example of piss poor rules writing and knee jerk reactions to safety.

I understand Glenn's frustration and don't disagree with the idea of better safety but don't want to pay for it twice unnecessarily either.

 

But I also want to say it may slow my build down some. I had been fairly comfortable with the thought of using a cheaper seat and a right sight net. Now I'll have to think about the tradeoff of meeting tech versus cost for safety scenarios I currently believe are very similar.

 

When the rules get updated/clarified for this, is the mandatory H&N going to be dated?

 

Even with all this, I can't wait to get the car out...

[CMC#11]

 

But I also want to say it may slow my build down some. I had been fairly comfortable with the thought of using a cheaper seat and a right sight net. Now I'll have to think about the tradeoff of meeting tech versus cost for safety scenarios I currently believe are very similar.

 

David,

 

For a great low-cost seat I would go with the Ultrashield Rally seat, I think they are around $265. I have one in my car w/ side net and I feel completely comfortable.

I would get in touch with Boudy, he has great pricing on Ultrashield products.

[Adam Ginsberg]

What would have helped is a rule written that clearly states the intent instead of being so ambiguous.

 

Look up the word "bolster" which is the wording used in the rule. It's defined as "support" which is a LOT different than "restraint".

 

Now, a bolster, even though it is specifically written in the rule, will not meet the intent is what I'm understanding. Correct?

 

Again, lesson learned. Wait till the 11th hour for compliance to allow "intent" to finally bubble to the surface.

 

No kidding. In January of this year, I bought a Kirkey side bolster since it met the requirement of the rule to be proactive. So much for that.

 

Well.....NASA National has updated the CCR's several times since the first release for the 2007 season. The latest version is dated 13 June 2007 @ 2:01am, and is release 2007.23. The version I pulled down at the beginning of the year is dated 28 Nov 2007, release 2007.13.

 

The most recent version now has a diagram for a net installation, and they've changed the wording considerably.

 

Maybe I missed it, but I don't recall NASA sending out any kind of warning that the CCR's had been updated.

 

Rev 2007.13 ( no diagram ):

 

IMPORTANT NOTICE: Use of a head and neck restraint system or device, meeting SFI specifications, may become mandatory for all road race series as of July 1, 2007.

 

15.17.9 Head Restraint – Side Impact

As of July 1st, 2007 it is required that all drivers employ a right-side impact head restraint system. A seat with a “bolster†to keep the head from moving to the right side in an impact is acceptable. A side-impact head-net restraint system, such as Simpson part #36015P is also acceptable. Note- all side-impact head-net restraint systems must have a quick-release mechanism to aid the driver in case of a necessary egress via the passenger side.

 

Rev 2007.23 ( now has a diagram ):

 

IMPORTANT NOTICE: Use of a head and neck restraint system or device, meeting SFI specifications, may become mandatory for all road race series as of January 1, 2008.

 

15.17.9 Head Restraint – Side Impact

As of July 1st, 2007 it is required that all drivers employ a right-side impact head restraint system. A seat with a “bolster†to keep the head from moving to the right side in an impact is acceptable. A side-impact head-net restraint system, such as the Racetech RTViperRP is also acceptable. Note- all side-impact head-net restraint systems must have a quick-release mechanism to aid the driver in case of a necessary egress via the passenger side.

 

Note- it is recommended that a side net wrap around the seat and function to help stop the shoulders, head bolster (if applicable), and seat from moving sideways in an impact. It is best to follow the manufacturer’s suggestions for installation of any safety device. However, in lieu of suggestions, or in addition to, it is recommend that the lower strap of the side net run parallel with the fore/aft center line of the car and be low enough to support the shoulder area as well. Furthermore, it is suggested that the top strap follow a path through the center of the helmet, when viewed from the side. Reference Diagram 15.17.9-1.

 

Diagram 15.17.9-1:

 

 

Lot's of "suggestions" and "recommendations", and NASA has changed their recommended manufacturer from Simpson to Racetech. Racetech is all out of nets as they are trying to find a new supplier, and only sells nets to fit their Viper seat.

 

Finding out about this with only 4 weeks until the Nat's makes it damn near impossible to meet the tech requirements Tony talks about, especially since I'll be on the road for business over the next 3 weeks. No doubt, others are in the same predicament.

[Glenn]

edited.

[Dave Schotz]

Ok... so since this has gone in all sorts of directions... I just wanted to follow up on this post... and see if it is 'still' considered legal:

 

So then... would the Racetech Seat w/ Left & Right Head Restraints (see image) be legal? And not need the Net Restraint?

 

Racetech Head Restraint Seats:

http://www.racetechseatsna.com/race_seats/RT4009HR.html

 

I just want to make sure this is different than the bolster comments... I'm confused.

 

Thanks,

Dave

[mitchntx1548534714]

I'm confused.

 

Thanks,

Dave

 

Really?

 

If you run a piece of 1 3/4" roll cage tubing from the cross bar up to the bolster/restraint, it won't move.

 

[Dave Schotz]

I'm confused.

 

Thanks,

Dave

 

Really?

 

If you run a piece of 1 3/4" roll cage tubing from the cross bar up to the bolster/restraint, it won't move.

 

 

Thanks Mitch... but what does that have to do with my question?

 

Still confused,

Dave

[mitchntx1548534714]

The problem that has been found so far is that some of the side seat extensions on some seats suck so bad you can bend them with your hand,

 

Best thing to do is to make sure your side protection net or seat side mount extension won't break down in a real life situation.

 

So in tech you will be inspected to make sure its in working order,and if we can bend your aluminum side plate then you failed the test.

 

 

Dave, it appears from what Tony has said, if one of those "ears" can deflect a subjective amount, you will fail.

 

So, the only way to know is give it a try. If it "bends", buy yet another piece of equipment and give it a try.

 

Or, you can brace it with a piece of roll bar tubing.

[Al F.]

Fundamentally the rule hasnt changed. Nasa might've added suggestions, and changed the item used as a reference, but the rule itself remains: something that keeps your head from moving to right in case of impact.

 

True it doesnt specify how far to the right, nor how strong an impact. The rules also dont specify how to mount a seat very well, for example, yet how many of you are afraid of not being allowed on track because your seat mount isnt adequate?

 

The gist of NASA getting Alan involved, adding suggestions to the book, etc is around people showing up with home brew supports that can be bent with casual force, or a single piece of wire stretched from seat to dash, or a nice piece of chicken wire stapled to the seat...

 

Your cabbage weighs quite a bit, around 10lbs, at even just 5gs thats 50 lbs...what does your restraint do when you pull on it with 50lbs of force?

[mitchntx1548534714]

 

True it doesnt specify how far to the right, nor how strong an impact. The rules also dont specify how to mount a seat very well, for example, yet how many of you are afraid of not being allowed on track because your seat mount isnt adequate?

 

 

Using one poorly written rule to justify yet another is no justification, Al.

 

All I ask is that a rule be written that is clear, unambiguous and written once. Using an "intent" safety net and deflecting the issue saying we "should know the intent" isn't good enough. It should be obvious in this thread you cannot rely on that.

 

We should all know the "intent" of CMC. If that's the case, why have a set of rules to begin with?

[mitchntx1548534714]

So answer the question ...

 

Can I weld a piece of roll cage tubing to the side of the bolster I have and then to the cage to prevent bolster movement?

 

Moving the bolster is the new standard, correct?

[bsim]

As the rule stands, my little Kirkey bolt on "tabs" are legal. That's what will be going with me to the Nationals.

 

If and when the rule is updated, I'll either look into adding a net, or getting the Kirkey halo bolt on.

 

Dave, that seat is legal.

[bsim]

Holy crap, I disagree with an interpretation!

...and if we can bend your aluminum side plate then you failed the test.

Deflection = energy absorbtion. This is a GOOD thing. I don't wanna have my head bashed up against an immoveable object at 10g+.

[Richard Pryor1548534703]

Finally, Brad hit the nail, or support, on the head. With all the variation and interpretation available it would make more sense to spec out a side net and required mounting specifications and/or specific bolsters with installation requirements...as discussions herein have pointed out subjective doesn't work...concrete requirements with no room for interpretation are necessary...RP

[Al F.]

Dont get me wrong, I'd prefer more specificficity as well...I just dont think its a huge deal.

 

Mitch, It would appear that you could seeing as how what triggered this whole thing was bolsters that didnt support a slight breeze and you're just taking it to the opposite extreme, BUT, seeing as how this is a NASA rule...I think before you go welding in your car you should ask someone like Larry Marsala.

[Glenn]

Dont get me wrong, I'd prefer more specificficity as well...I just dont think its a huge deal.

 

Mitch, It would appear that you could seeing as how what triggered this whole thing was bolsters that didnt support a slight breeze and you're just taking it to the opposite extreme, BUT, seeing as how this is a NASA rule...I think before you go welding in your car you should ask someone like Larry Marsala.

 

AL, Tony and others, i dont think anyone is taking this serious enough!!!!! certainly not as serious as me. it is a huge deal to me when i show up to Nationals in 22 days from now after driving 1200 plus miles only to be turned away because i cant pass tech.

 

so how about we put up some pics or something of things that didnt pass (the one that caused this whole issue) so we all know what the deal is. how about doing something to stop the panic here if there is no reason to panic. i've made numerous phone calls to find out if what i have and a few other fellow racers have is going to be accepted at Nationals so we can stop thinking about this and move on to other car prep issues. i've yet to get a return call w/ an answer.

 

i'm about 100% sure there will be a rewrite of this rule for 2008. as for now, lets get some word out as to what will be accepted and what will not be accepted to cover those of us making the long and exspensive trip to Mid Ohio.

 

for starters, would the following be accepted for the time being?

 

 

lets do the right thing here and get the word out soon enough to give people time to jump thru hoops to be sure they are legal.

[bsim]

As I posted above Glenn, those are similar to my Kirkeys. Though some may say they're not "good enough", they meet the rule as it's written.

 

"Tugging" on the bolsters is NOT an acceptable criteria to pass or fail a component. What's the energy threshhold? 5 pounds? 50? 500? I bet I can bend even the best of halos (given enough time and leverage).

 

So, those are coming with me as they meet the 2007 rule as written (if not what was intended).

[Glenn]

As I posted above Glenn, those are similar to my Kirkeys. Though some may say they're not "good enough", they meet the rule as it's written.

 

"Tugging" on the bolsters is NOT an acceptable criteria to pass or fail a component. What's the energy threshhold? 5 pounds? 50? 500? I bet I can bend even the best of halos (given enough time and leverage).

 

So, those are coming with me as they meet the 2007 rule as written (if not what was intended).

 

i do agree w/ you Brad, but its a long trip home if they are not acceptable.

the point here is we need clarification.

[mitchntx1548534714]

Tony/Al/ et.al.

 

Understand that I am really not advocating welding a piece of roll bar tubing to the side of a "bolster".

 

The point of my asking was to show a ridiculous solution to the issue of

if we can bend your aluminum side plate then you failed the test.

 

Tony Guaglione

CMC National Director

 

Bracing it to the cage fixes that issue. Is that really what you want?

[tacovini]

Anything short of this side restraint system will be turned away and sent home.

 

 

Kidding aside...I think Glenn got his answer today. (Sorry I've been unavailable, and you had to hunt for an answer.)

 

The rulemakers can't dictate every net installation for every car for every person. There are too many variables. The INTENT is to restrain the noggin (some, greater in size than others) in the event of a side impact. Stipulating exact measurements/dimensions could miss the target for some...while work perfectly fine for others.

 

It's a new rule...with some growing pains. As Tony mentioned, and many of us heard, some folks were doing the opposite of Mitch's ridiculous proposal and running a few shoe strings together with zip ties and duct tape. (Wah-La!!! It's a side-net!!!)

 

Without physically inspecting an application, you're going to be pretty hard pressed for any director/tech inspector to approve anything based on a photo.

 

I think the good folks at NASA have always been pretty good about working with folks to achieve mutual goals on a race weekend...and that is to go home to your family safely after a fun weekend.

 

Bottom line...come with a side restraint per the rules, make sure it restrains your head (not your shoulders)...and you'll probably be fine. There'll be resources there at the track if need be.

 

PS- Gad-Zooks....Pull yourself together, man...you're a Series Director for God sakes!!!

[Pat Stone1548534713]

This is starting to look like an SCCA conversation. Like Todd said, NASA has always been willing to work with us on things like this to get everyone in compliance. I just can't believe it can be this hard. I bought my net at Infineon and installed it in the car correctly in about a half an hour. It worked great. After the race weekend I adjusted it a little to get it closer to my head which was quite simple, since the bars are angled that way anyway. Again it took about a half an hour. My buddy Dave Morin used the kirkey bolt in piece which felt plenty strong enough to do the job. I'm with Brad on the flex part, I don't want my head hitting anything connected to a roll bar pipe. Last but not least, Glenn, we know your car is one of the best prepped cars in the series, so I'm sure which ever way you get this done it will be right. The tech monsters won't send you packing I'm sure. If you need help we'll be there early with all our tools and torches. We can cut a few holes in that chevy and help you out anyway we can. He He

 

PS

[Glenn]

i got the answer i was looking for from Tony and JWL. i'm happy. Thanks Nick Steel for getting JWL involved.

 

as for the "well prep'ed car" - thanks! that was a very nice complement, but we are just getting started. got a few tricks up my sleeve. i'll save most of them for Nationals 2008.

 

guys and gals, i'm really looking forward to this years Nationals. last years was fun, but i was a little "stressed" to say the least. this year has been alot more fun and i have been way more relaxed at the track than ever. whatever opinion you guys had formed of me in the past from my actions here and other places, please allow me another chance to make a first impression.

look forward to meeting new CMC'ers and seeing the old salts from last year.

 

anyone know if Jeff Trask is coming?

[jeffburch]

anyone know if Jeff Trask is coming?

 

Oh Nooooooooooo!

I just sanded and painted that booger from him on my LR corner.

 

jb