Building car

[Mechgod]

Hello racers

Derrin Griffin here from Wild Pony Motorsports

After blowing my motor last weekend its time to think of the new year

 

I am concidering (w/ the push from Vicky) to race with you for the coming year. I've been instructing for nasa hpde and racing in time trial.

My car 87 mustang, 302. it has springs and shocks, panard bar,

rear lower control arms adjustable perches (no good)

strut tower brace, pbr frt brakes, rear disc 5 lug all sn95.

subframe connectors MM. flowmasters 2.5 exhaust hpipe.

MM CC plates

 

Hows that?

my ? is on the new motor, i currently have a toquer2 intake and a 750cfm proform (holley knockoff), using 9 to 1 compression.

roller rockers, valve studs, under over pulleys Yehhhhhh

 

none of this stuff is allowed is it?

[King Matt1548534716]

Your chassis mods are OK other than the adjustable perches, but you can tack weld them in place and keep them. Some of the engine stuff is non-compliant. There is a spec Edelbrock Performer intake and Holley 4776 600-cfm carb. The underdrive pulleys are OK, and you can run the factory Cobra 1.7 roller rockers since that engine is legal per the update/backdate rules. Sounds like you're not too far off if you swap a few parts. What heads do you have?

[Mechgod]

the heads that i have are stock 302 heads

 

Well im thinking i need a newer 90's block with FI

roller cam,lifters and rockers all stock and convert the car back

waiting to hear back from a guy how has one

the old motor was 9to1, e303 cam,gt40p heads larger valves

torer2 manifold 750 carb hole in hood for air cleaner

 

the junker motor is an 85 with tbi and 175k miles, i just needed something to build from. after thinking about it today i will use the junker for now, reuse all my old mods and finish my years events. Then use fi for next year. i will have to get a new hood as well

the aftermarket roller rockers that are 1.7 are no good either

would like to use larger studs for the rockers?

regrading the perchs we can weld them after we set ride height?

 

is there much differance between stock shorty headers and after market besides tube size?

[Glenn]

comment on the 1.7 rockers. i was told if you run any EFI parts you have to run them all. you cant run the SPEC carb cam w/ the TPI intake. you shouldnt be able to run the EFI Cobra 1.7 rockers on a carb motor.

thats what i've been told. it may not be correct. look into it.

[MHISSTC]

Glenn,

 

I disagree with what you've been told.

 

I'm looking forward to others opininons.

 

Scott

[Glenn]

when i looked into building a 3rd gen, i asked if i could put the SPEC cam in a TPI motor. i was told no. it was a SPEC cam, carb and intake or it was stock EFI.

i was also told the same for the Ford Cobra stuff. all the Cobra stuff that was allowed was the 91-92 stuff, right? none of those motors were carb were they? so there is no reason the Cobra stuff should be on a carb motor, right? as a Texas Director this was what i was lead to believe. i could very well be wrong. i'll wait for Tony to chime in from here on out.

[MHISSTC]

I'm going to stir the pot just for fun on this one.

 

The phrase in 8.13.1 that states, "Any 4.6 Ford, 5.0,(302 Ford or 305 GM), 5.7 liter GM V8 production engine, in OEM stock configuration" might be somewhat misleading and might need some clarification.

 

My interpretation is that the rules specify one of two different "induction systems" that can be used...the stock fuel injection or the SPEC carb and intake (and cam for GM)...that's it. If you don't run fuel injection, you only have one choice for carb and intake manifold (and cam for the GM folks). This keeps the carb folks in the performance ballpark with the fuel injection crowd. Once you go beyond the intake manifold you can mix and match to your heart's content on any part (except for the cam for the GM carb crowd) that originally came as stock on any of the engines in any particular set of eligible makes and models. For the FORD folks, that means anything from the 5.0L parts bin from the '79-'95 Mustangs and Capris.

 

I don't think you can reasonably follow the EFI part only/carb part only line of reasoning because they are so blurred. I'll use the FORD products as an example. There are also several other distinct engine features during the '79-'93 foxbody and '94-'95 SN95 5.0L production years where you could possibly base a can/can't (or should/shouldn't) use type argument that might actually provide a better distinction than the fuel injection/carb argument.

 

Here are a few examples of the blurring of fuel injection/carb parts use.

 

First, where does FORD's wonderful CFI system fit into the discussion? Technically, it's a fuel injection system, but it sits on a carb manifold. The CFI only came on automatic equipped cars, so that point may be moot. But, if I did the 5-speed swap, would I be allowed to convert the CFI to the EFI or the SPEC carb setup? Or, God forbid, am I stuck running CFI?

 

To blur the lines even further during the CFI transition years, the blocks were "hydraulic roller lifter-ready", but were not fully machined to accept them and had regular hydraulic lifters. Which lifters would I be allowed to use?

 

Also during those transition years, early CFI engines had cast iron exhaust manifolds while the later ones had the factory shorty tubular headers. Which exhaust manifolds would I be allowed to use?

 

Then I'd have to ask what I would be able to do with the '79 5.0L Mustang coupe I have. It predates any of the "5.0L H.O." days. Am I not allowed to use any of the "H.O." labled parts?

 

The '86 EFI engines used the E6 heads, while the '87+ EFI non-Cobra engines used the E7 heads. The '93-'95 Cobras used the GT-40 heads...but were still fuel injected...and I can use Cobra stuff now...including the cam and 1.7 ratio lifters...

 

Oh, boy, I'm on a roll now.

 

There were also a couple of years the Mustangs/Capris didn't even come stock with a 5.0L(302) V8...all you could get was a 4.2L(255) V8. We're allowed to retrofit those years with 5.0s that never appeared as stock in the car!!

 

I could go on and on, but I think you see my point.

 

That's why, beyond the specified induction system components, if you can make it all work together, you ought to be able to mix and match any variation of parts that came stock within the particular set of eligible makes and models.

 

Or as Dennis Miller would say, "Of course, that's just my opinion. I could be wrong."

[mitchntx1548534714]

I'm going to stir the pot just for fun on this one.

 

I gladly pass the torch ...

[supermac]

I'm going to stir the pot just for fun on this one.

 

I gladly pass the torch ...

 

Wuss..

[doug1548534725]

Al seems to agree that you can mix and match parts from fuel injection and carbbed motors:

 

http://www.camaromustangchallenge.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=2394

[jeffburch]

Wow, cool.

Spec Cam in my TPI here I come!

 

jb

[supermac]

Wow, cool.

Spec Cam in my TPI here I come!

 

jb

 

Umm.. sorry Jeff but that rule says everyone except JB somewhere I am sure.

[supermac]

As for the rest of you, don't you think that if the Champ could run it that he would have done it already?

[Al F.]

Sections 8.14 for Fords and 8.15 for GMs are there to provide an alternative for OEM induction. In order to use any of the parts allowed in those sections, you have to use all of the parts allowed in those sections:

 

All of the following unmodified aftermarket components (and only these components) may be installed on an OEM stock unmodified Ford 5.0 liter (302ci) V8 long block to create a carbed, spec CMC Ford engine:

 

Since the GM package includes a cam, you have to use that cam to have a "spec" combination. Since that cam was not part of any OEM GM 305 offering in any elligible car, you cannot use it unless its part of a "spec" combination.

 

I think in the posts below Glenn might be intermixing "carb" with "spec"? Ford engines striving to meet the "spec"...specs must use that specified holley and that specified edelbrock intake. Ford had carbed 302s within the model years we allow (up to 85? Adam?), so if you want to run a 1984 Ford motor with the factory intake and carb, and backdate/update your rockers (no idea if they work! just talking hypothetically) from a 91 Cobra, then I'd say the rules would allow that.

[King Matt1548534716]

Before I get too confused, I want to confirm that it's legal to update/backdate specific heads, rockers, cams, throttle bodies, MAFs, etc. between any of the eligible Ford engines (GMs too as long as they are on the same eligibility line). If you want to put the spec carb & intake on a complete 93-95 Cobra engine, that's OK, but if you want to use just the GT40 heads, or just the roller rockers, or any other individual part, that would be legal too, I assume?

[bsim]

I think what I'm seeing is that if you remain injected, knock yourself out with swapping between the years.

 

If you go carbed, you have to use the "spec" carb and intake (+cam), and all else has to remain stock per the year.

 

Did I get that right?

[doug1548534725]

I think what I'm seeing is that if you remain injected, knock yourself out with swapping between the years.

 

If you go carbed, you have to use the "spec" carb and intake (+cam), and all else has to remain stock per the year.

 

Did I get that right?

 

I don't think so. If you go with the "spec" motor (which happens to be carb), you have to use everything in the spec list.

 

If you don't use any non-stock parts on the spec list, you can back/forward date at will, including factory carbs.

[MHISSTC]

Yes, if you go with the spec engine, you have to use everything on the spec engine list.

No, you can't cherry pick from the spec list. It's all or nothing on the spec list.

Yes, even with the spec engine you are allowed to update/backdate any of the other engine parts within the particular set of eligible makes and models.

[mitchntx1548534714]

Unless, of course, it's a convertible. Then you have to wear arm restraints.

 

[tacovini]

[MHISSTC]

Our CMC project electrical technician.