AI Width Rule

[JWL]

The LS was approved in a "hey, would this be OK if we built it" discussion many moons ago, but it never got past the too much beer and gazing at the family car stage so it never made it into the rules. Ironically, I have a V8 LS sitting in the driveway which handles very nicely (think 5-series Bimmer) but would require a gut and refit to do anything meaningful on the track. This is why I try to get my wife to hide the Sawzall and motor crane before the seventh beer.

 

As for the V, I don't see why we should exclude it, but again since they aren't showing up they are still vaporware for now. The T2 and GAC guys have done OK with them and based on the data presented they might do well in AI.

 

So, Jeff is correct that neither car is de facto legal but they are just a tech bulletin away from being legal. We didn't see a need to put them into the 2006 rules, but I also don't think either would be Mythical Class Killers either.

 

-JWL

 

P.S. The smack is funny to watch, but let's not get carried away with setting up brawls at Mid-O over data acq, Cadillac lap times, and fenders. There are much better things to throw a punch over (such as the infamous Panther cheerleader incident).

[mwilson7]

 

Let's not have another notched frame fiasco. If it's not in the rules, it isn't legal.

 

Jeff,

 

Where in the rules is there a blanket disclaimer that says "If it's not in the rules then it isn't legal?". After what I went through last year I would be all for it and this it should be part of the rules but it is only mentioned in certain sections.

[Jeff F]

Where in the rules is there a blanket disclaimer that says "If it's not in the rules then it isn't legal?".

No blanket disclaimer needed. It's spelled out specifically here:

4 (e) Solid rear axle or approved independent rear suspension (IRS)*

* See Rule 6.1(d) and Rule 6.2

and

6.1 (d)

(1) 1999-current Mustang Cobra with factory IRS is allowed and updating of 1979-current live axle Fox Body or SN95 cars to factory IRS is allowed.

(2) Other IRS cars allowed are MN12 chassis Ford Thunderbirds/Mercury Cougars and 2004-up Pontiac GTO’s with factory IRS.

[mwilson7]

That applies to IRS but I'm talking about everything else........

[Mike Armstrong]

PostPosted: Tue Nov 08, 2005 5:31 pm Post subject:

I don't care whose teammate you are, the fact is that the two cars ran identical lap times on the same track. The Cadillac's 1:49 was in the race, not qualifying. And since you have so much experience, you should know that it's the race that counts.

 

I Wish I could take credit for the lap time. I CAN take credit for a poorly tuned carb, a Tremec that was sticking nearly every shift, a starter that fell off and was banging around and a battery cable that was loose enough to make the fuel pump "tap dance",......hmmm,..still amazed that V- would ever get back in the 07 car after that weekend???

Needless to say I am still learning. I do know one thing after a few years in CMC and a couple years in AI. I fully grasp who actually knows their $#!T and who is full of $#!t when it pertains to this series.

 

With V's help and his valuable information the 07 car is now a much improved record setting car compared to the “first outing” that put down the 1:49.xx (oops also forgot to mention V- having to pass 25 plus cmc cars and 9 plus SU cars in a traffic jammed infeild to get that 1:49). If the CTS car didn't completely reinvent itself after running a 1:49 it would officially be slaughtered by the current 07 car with V- driving.

 

Matt, the folks you are "ribbing" have been involved with input and feedback on many of the parts specifically develped for winning in AI/X

not to mention the "yabber" about experience when V- is well on his way to holding nearly every track record on the West Coast.

It is absolutely amazing what someone like V- (builder/wining racer) can do to these AI cars (even in their simplest form such as the 07 )

The decision to align myself with someone who knows how to drive these cars will always be a much better choice than a 2K data devise that won't do any good in AI when the likes of Guy, Keith, V-, MM, Ryan(s) Ernesto are all going into a turn less than 3 inches apart. I will bet the drivers who actually win AI races could give a %$%% about data aqu. and only the slow terd in 9th is busy spending thousands to work their way up to 8th after listening to some bull about how much it will help you in AI races.

 

Matt, your not lacking enthusiasm,….just facts and any useful information for AI/X. It is fun to check in and see who’s poking some of the fastest most successful AI/X drivers from the cockpit of their illegal CMC car…..Sorry, couldn’t resist throwing a jab in about the well researched Hot Rod article you wrote on How NOT to build a CMC car and the warm

reception from the CMC crowd.

 

I hope this is enough smack to fill up pre-registration for M.O.!!!

[Jeff F]

I will bet the drivers who actually win AI races could give a %$%% about data aqu. and only the slow terd in 9th is busy spending thousands to work their way up to 8th after listening to some bull about how much it will help you in AI races.

Hmm. Maybe Robin Burnett will chime in...

[mwilson7]

Based on the cost of his Data Aq system I bet he doesn't!

[King Matt]

And why should he? As our West Coast brethren have proven here in this thread, only a fool or a back-marker would waste his money on a data system, especially when carbon fiber fenders can be purchased for the same money. You guys at Ford should tell you bosses to stop using them too and just hire V or E to sort everything out.

[JWL]

Biggie=Matt

Tupac=Vageli

Shuge=Ernesto

 

Westsiiiiiiide! Our l33t CF will 0wn j0o!

 

-JWL

 

P.S. No gats on course at MO!

[b_tone]

Biggie=Matt

Tupac=Vageli

Shuge=Ernesto

 

Westsiiiiiiide! Our l33t CF will 0wn j0o!

 

-JWL

 

P.S. No gats on course at MO!

 

Let's see: Tupac is dead, Biggie is dead and Shuge is in jail......

 

Matt and V need to watch out for bullets while Ernesto needs to protect his rear end in the future....nice!!!

[BobKaser#90]

Come on, where you been? Shuge finished his bid and has been on the street since the summer.

[racercosmo]

Cosmo=Snoop with the gin and juice.

[Mike Armstrong]

PostPosted: Thu Nov 10, 2005 2:29 am Post subject:

And why should he? As our West Coast brethren have proven here in this thread, only a fool or a back-marker would waste his money on a data system, especially when carbon fiber fenders can be purchased for the same money.

 

Someday Matt can sit down with someone who actually has a winning AIX car and let them explain the cost benefits from reduced wt. (C.F panels) in a series like AIX vs the cost of HP/TQ and labor in a motor built to the extreme.

Matt, here is a 5th grade word problem:

Ernesto has an 8K motor and CF parts vs 20K motor and no CF parts. Ernesto and the big motor car run side by side in the big race. Who gets to keep more "fun tickets" for tires when it's time to rebuild a motor ????? anyone,...anyone? how about Mr.T-bucket expert?

What happens when Ernesto puts an extreme motor in his car?????

 

After Matt answers these tough questions can he give us a run down on his latest AI/X accomplishments and his undeniable experience in the series???? Maybe a war story or two?? ':lol:' Like the time you passed Ernesto and V- at 145mp and ripped through the MM car while avoiding nearly 30 slower CMC cars. And how you banged fenders with Ross M. through turn 11 at Sears as you finally put your pat. pending "Mattdaman" move on Guy C. for the win.

Or Matt,.... is the true story,....I once showed up for a CMC race and another car was there??????? and my 2K data aq. on my 3K CMC car helped me kick his ass ':oops:'

 

Ernesto took the risk and helped develope the CF parts with a friend. The payoff for all of us is some much needed attention towards AI/X through exposure and media coverage. Ernesto has built a blistering fast, bar raising car that runs 2-3 seconds a lap faster than the previous AIX record held by someone who is an SCCA AS champion, an AIX champion and is a pro racer in T/A among others.

Matt,what have you done latley????':shock:'

Oh yes,.....

You covered in riveting detail the building of your own project and got it all completely wrong. Somehow you also managed to document it for the world to see (Well not the world, but at least the "ZZ top wannabees" that read the crap in HOT ROD). You had to retract your dribble and learn to "make nice" with the CMC folks who have been running in the series for years. They all wondered why such a ding-a-ling wouldn't run the story by anyone who had actually ever been in a CMC race or built a CMC car.???????? (Matt, you're dogging CF fenders when you wrote that you wanted to put a forged crank in cars that put down on avg.210hp/265tq)

Matt's vast knowledge within the Hot Rod world somehow overides the experiences of series champions and builders. When I need info on Chevy logo shaped exhaust tips or how to completely screw up a record setting AI car I'll give you a call.

Hmm. Maybe Robin Burnett will chime in...

Hmm. Maybe Robin hasn't run against Guy, Keith, V-, MM, Ryan F. Ryan W.

Kevin, Ross or Ernesto,.....that would put him somewhere around 10th.

If I remember correctly Ryan F. ran faster than most the midwest AI cars

in his Honda at MO. ':shock:'

Wow this enough "yabber smack" to get me a discount on NASA stickers

at M.O. ,...or thrown out?? This is all just smack but I can't resist when

someone like Matt is talking about AI/X through an opening that does not have lips.

[mansier]

The best part will be when everyone gets smoked by the Luxury Chicken. V-6 and all. The podium will look like this:

 

[trackboss]

that's funny, just make sure the when we look inside it doesn't resemble a chicken coop

[Jeff F]

Hmm. Maybe Robin hasn't run against Guy, Keith, V-, MM, Ryan F. Ryan W. Kevin, Ross or Ernesto,.....that would put him somewhere around 10th.

Yep, your math makes perfect sense. Someone who finished 3rd at the runoffs in AS might be able to muster 10th in a west coast AI race if he got really lucky

[z28racergirl]

Oh my God Mike, you're freakin' awesome!

 

Keep the smack talk comin' boys! My bowl of popcorn is full and I'm ready to sit back and watch...

 

Christine

[Admiral]

OK, i'm the last guy to take sides with Matt but I do have an opinion on data aq. For novices like me who have been racing for 2-3 years in the same AI car a $700 Traqmate seems like a logical purchase to give me some info and feedback on what I'm doing and what I may be doing wrong.

 

I don't have a calibrated butt, there is a huge gap between my seat cushion and my brain, I'm not "feeling" much and I'm interpreting none of what the car is telling me. My data aq. device was purchased to help me understand what I'm doing with the car and help me understand why one lap was quicker than another. For other drivers this may be a waste of money, for me things weren't clicking so I needed some help.

 

Repeating the same mistakes in the car lap after lap hasn't made me much progress, so I went to data aq for some assistance. Someday down the road I hope I'm in a position to say I'd rather spend the $700 on a new set of Toyos than on a gadget - but I'm not there right now.

[mwilson7]

Hmm. Maybe Robin hasn't run against Guy, Keith, V-, MM, Ryan F. Ryan W. Kevin, Ross or Ernesto,.....that would put him somewhere around 10th.

Yep, your math makes perfect sense. Someone who finished 3rd at the runoffs in AS might be able to muster 10th in a west coast AI race if he got really lucky

 

You guys are assuming that you could get 10 cars to show up for a west coast AI race!

 

Sorry, couldn't resist.......

[swhiteh3]

OK, i'm the last guy to take sides with Matt but I do have an opinion on data aq.

Data Acquisition makes a lot of sense, for even professional drivers. There is a lot to learn there - about the car and about the driver. It's being used in every major race series anywhere.

 

Since Mike opened up the coast-smack-talking (all in good fun I hope), I'll jump on the bandwagon:

 

Apparently the West Coasters are more worried about their bling Carbon Fiber than anything else. Instead of learning about data acq, they're busy surfing, I'd guess.

Oh, and to anticipate Mike Armstrongs comments - yes, I have raced against Guy and Keith, and they saw my tail lights. You might remember that VIR race, where the entire overall podium had nothing but Midwest and East Coast guys on it?

Edited November 11, 2005 by Guest

[860TTC]

Hmm. Maybe Robin hasn't run against Guy, Keith, V-, MM, Ryan F. Ryan W. Kevin, Ross or Ernesto,.....that would put him somewhere around 10th.

Yep, your math makes perfect sense. Someone who finished 3rd at the runoffs in AS might be able to muster 10th in a west coast AI race if he got really lucky

 

The 3 events prior to nationals at the newly paved Mid Ohio will be a huge advantage for the OH/IN drivers!

[lsandine]

 

The 3 events prior to nationals at the newly paved Mid Ohio will be a huge advantage for the OH/IN drivers!

 

Given that if an AI West / Texas driver wins that will be quite an accomplishment.

[b_tone]

Given the discussion throughout this entire thread I suggest that people start stocking up on fenders,doors and front/rear fascia's in preperation to this event.

 

This has to potential to look like the T2 and AS runoff races combined!

 

[RichardP]

Given the discussion throughout this entire thread I suggest that people start stocking up on fenders,doors and front/rear fascia's in preperation to this event.

 

 

No doubt. I've ordered three full sets in carbon fiber based off of this design:

 

 

 

 

Richard Pedersen

NASA TX AI #91

Going to nationals... as a spectator...

[onralz]

Since Mike opened up the coast-smack-talking (all in good fun I hope), I'll jump on the bandwagon:

 

Apparently the West Coasters are more worried about their bling Carbon Fiber than anything else. Instead of learning about data acq, they're busy surfing, I'd guess.

Oh, and to anticipate Mike Armstrongs comments - yes, I have raced against Guy and Keith, and they saw my tail lights. You might remember that VIR race, where the entire overall podium had nothing but Midwest and East Coast guys on it?

 

How were you able to see them with Griwolds tailights so bright in your eyes? Hell Griswold doesn't run carbon fiber, or data aquisition. He hasn't progressed passed a carb(I can't spell the whole name).

Keeping in mind my car and I were sitting in the pits watching this as the oil dripped out of the pan of the car that was passing all the before mentioned cars then did a little Dukes of hazzard next to Hoover.

Personally I'd like to have carbon fiber as I have proven in AI/X that the car doesn't do anything other than look good. It would be lighter so it would be easier to push on the trailer too. If I had DA, I could have something to do while the real race cars were on the track and I was in the pits. Thank god I'm running in AI now, or will be again someday.

Edited November 12, 2005 by Guest