Members Al F. Posted November 6, 2007 Members Share Posted November 6, 2007 As the topic says, the 2008 rules are posted in the Series Info & Rules page, along with a document that only contains the changes Vs 2007 rules and a revised dyno certification form. First and foremost...a HUGE thanks to all of you that participated in this year's effort, be it by submitting your thoughts or participating in the discussions around those submissions. Second, to those of you that submitted something you feel strongly about and it didnt make the cut...sorry. Feel free to call me and we can chat about the gory details of why some things were decided as they were. Third, a special thanks to all of the series officials who dedicate their time and efforts to help bring this yearly rules party together. Last...I am very excited to see this rules set out with as few changes as are there. CMC has come a long way, and we're continuing to grow and evolve but happily in a controlled fashion where this year's cars will be just as competitive next year! Now...on to the season finale for some of you, and the holidays and much deserved winter break for the rest of you! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
doug1548534725 Posted November 6, 2007 Share Posted November 6, 2007 This text was removed: The door window glass, window operating echanism, armrest, map pockets, door panel, and inside door latch may be removed from both doors. The outside door latch mechanism may not be removed or modified. The trimming or removal of the inner door panel (metal) structure and/or the removal of the OEM side impact beam is only allowed on the driver’s side if the roll cage incorporates at least two National Association of Stock Car Auto Racing (NASCAR) style door safety bars, which must extend to the outer door skin, and on the passenger’s side if the roll cage incorporates at least This text was added lower, (re)allowing the removal of side glass: Side windows must be removed or lowered. Does this imply that the rest of the window operating mechanism, armrest, map pockets, door panel, and inside door latches may not be removed, and thus, must be re-installed a cars that currently have them removed? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mitchntx1548534714 Posted November 6, 2007 Share Posted November 6, 2007 2. INTENT Added Good sportsmanship is valued more than finishing position. This means clean, well-executed passing is to be a trademark of the series. Punting another competitor, or leaning on them to gain or maintain a position will not be tolerated. Car to car contact including bump drafting can result in an investigation and possible sanctions. My only suggestion is in bold. Otherwise ... a few surprises in what's NOT in there. Thanks to all who worked so hard for so long just so I can have some fun on the track. Note: no cat Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tony G Posted November 6, 2007 Share Posted November 6, 2007 It was removed because it is now in the CCR. Thanks, Tony Guaglione Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tony G Posted November 6, 2007 Share Posted November 6, 2007 By the way. The biggest change for 2008 is that you no longer will be able to run over 237HP in CMC, and if you have over 237HP you are now in CMC2. Basically, no more heavy high HP cars in CMC, they belong in CMC2 which is where they will be, so you high HP heavy cars should go on a diet and run CMC2, or you can restrict it to 237 or under and run in CMC. I think the CMC rules were near perfect and even better now that we did this ( and if you don't like it then blame it on me as I'm the one who really went after this one). Fair is fair, and now the playing field is more in line. Thanks, Tony Guaglione CMC National Director Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FBody383 Posted November 6, 2007 Share Posted November 6, 2007 It was removed because it is now in the CCR.Thanks, Tony Guaglione Unless superseded by class rules, modifications to any non-chassis structure (such as door panels, inner door sheet metal, windows, door internals, etc.) may be made to accommodate any allowed door bar configuration. However, removal of material and / or modifications is limited to 1) the least amount to accommodate the door bar(s), and 2) can serve no other function. Holes in the door jam (B-pillar) may be permitted to accommodate door bars; however the structure should not be “notched†so as to weaken it. I do not believe there is any intent on making current cars reinstall the door material that exceeds the minimum amount required to clear the door bar configuration. So us new guys can just cut out the entire inner door right? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GT4Point6 Posted November 6, 2007 Share Posted November 6, 2007 Unless superseded by class rules, modifications to any non-chassis structure (such as door panels, inner door sheet metal, windows, door internals, etc.) may be made to accommodate any allowed door bar configuration. However, removal of material and / or modifications is limited to 1) the least amount to accommodate the door bar(s), and 2) can serve no other function. Holes in the door jam (B-pillar) may be permitted to accommodate door bars; however the structure should not be “notched†so as to weaken it. So us new guys can just cut out the entire inner door right? Removal of glass, etc... is ok but not the skin unless your running what used to be called NASCAR style door bars where the bars curve into the inner door. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bsim Posted November 7, 2007 Share Posted November 7, 2007 ...but not the skin unless your running what used to be called NASCAR style door bars where the bars curve into the inner door.And even then, only ...the least amount to accomodate the door bar(s). So it sounds like the complete inner skin is off limits if you only have one bar. As such even the top of the inner is off limits if your bars don't go up that high. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cmc35 Posted November 8, 2007 Share Posted November 8, 2007 This comment is not about the CMC 2008 rules, which seem quite good to me. Rather, it's about the AI 2008 rules, and I bring it up here out of concern that the "philosophy" might migrate from AI to CMC... I was disappointed to see that the AI 2008 rules do not explicity forbid the cross-pollination of one platform's engine to another platform's body, e.g., putting a Camaro engine in a Mustang. This seems so obviously wrong. And it seems to go against the statement on www.americonironracing.com: "American Ironâ„¢ provides a forum where domestic "ponycars" such as Ford Mustangs, Chevrolet Camaros, and Pontiac Firebirds can challenge each other equipped with the finest performance products that tuners and manufacturers have in their arsenals." (If this exclusion is somehow contained in section 7.11 of the AI 2008 rules, then "never mind.") How do we ensure this kind of thing cannot happen in CMC? thanks, chris Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tony G Posted November 8, 2007 Share Posted November 8, 2007 No problem with that one with us. The rules state you can only have certain things done or switched within your model year group. Remember in the CMC rules it basically says that if its not in the rules that you can, than you can't. I can certainly tell you that if you show up in a Mustang with a Camaro motor or the opposite,than you would be fun running by yourself. Good that you brought it up though. Tony Guaglione Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Al F. Posted November 8, 2007 Author Members Share Posted November 8, 2007 Regarding the door bars and what you are allowed/not allowed to remove...we changed AI as well as CMC to state the same thing: do what the CCR says. I'm in full agreement that the CCR is a little vague with words like "minimum required" etc. The '08 CCR isnt out though If we cant get more clarity there and be consistent then we'll have no choice but to put our original language (or something) back into our rules. Make no mistake about it: no cars that were legal this year will have to do anything to conform to cage rules in '08. Our goal in changing the language was not to change requirements, rather to standardize across the AI/CMC classes and let the CCR drive where possible. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GT4Point6 Posted November 8, 2007 Share Posted November 8, 2007 ...but not the skin unless your running what used to be called NASCAR style door bars where the bars curve into the inner door.And even then, only ...the least amount to accomodate the door bar(s). This part I don't agree with from NASA and here is why. If you only cut the skin to make the NASCAR style door bars, then you will have some parts of the inner door above the door bars that is cut and could present a cut hazard on a side impact and worse yet, an egress hazard if your suit gets caught up trying to get out in an emergency. I "vision" this rule as a slot cut in the door to accomodate the NASCAR style bars, is that correct? I see this as a safety hazard. There is no compition advantage here one way or the other and there wasn't one to start with. NASCAR style door bars weigh a hell of a lot more than the skin removed from the door to accomodate them so I'm lost on the rule change from NASA. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keith Posted November 8, 2007 Share Posted November 8, 2007 If Kevin's interpretation is correct, then my car is now illegal. Does this rule say that I need to add the upper piece back to my door above my NASCAR bar? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GT4Point6 Posted November 9, 2007 Share Posted November 9, 2007 If Kevin's interpretation is correct, then my car is now illegal. Does this rule say that I need to add the upper piece back to my door above my NASCAR bar? No, see Al's post two post up. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keith Posted November 9, 2007 Share Posted November 9, 2007 Yeah I saw that but I was wondering if there isn't an opportunity for the guy who does my annual tech to fail me. ...I sure would like to get through a whole season without having to fool with the%$#^ cage... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
King Matt1548534716 Posted November 9, 2007 Share Posted November 9, 2007 First, we need to see if there is a clarification of this in the 2008 NASA CCRs. If not, there is clearly discretion within the current CCR rule for individual classes to set their own requirement in this regard. The section on door bars in the current CCR begins "Unless superceded by class rules..." This does not have to become an issue if it's properly addressed by CMC leadership. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Al F. Posted January 1, 2008 Author Members Share Posted January 1, 2008 Well, the 2008 CCR came and went and we did not end up getting a change to the CCR that AI and CMC could live with. We've therefore amended our own (and the AI) rule set. 6.12. Roll Cage and Door Safety Bars In addition to meeting all of the CCR specifications the roll cage in a CMC car must meet the following additional specifications. At a minimum at least two door safety bars must be used on the drivers side, and one door safety bar on the passenger side. Gutting of the door beyond what is solely necessary to fit cage bars is allowed. However, removal of the OEM door impact beams is only allowed if door bars extend out towards the door skin on the driver's side, and on the passenger side if a minimum of two door bars are used. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cmc35 Posted January 2, 2008 Share Posted January 2, 2008 Al - works for me; nice and clear. thanks, chris Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keith Posted January 2, 2008 Share Posted January 2, 2008 Works for me, too. Thanks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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