TurboShortBus Posted December 1, 2007 Share Posted December 1, 2007 Here's my situation...I want to build a CMC-type car to run HPDEs in 2008, then hopefully jump into CMC in 2009. Currently, I'm looking at 2 cars. Which would be the better candidate? 1. 2002 Mustang GT ($2200), 5-speed, blown engine (can get another for $1200 or so), hideous but removeable ricer body kit (Cervini hood, Saleen bunkbed wing, urethane nose, fiberglass front fenders, side skirts...stock body parts really should go back on), a few interior trim pieces missing, outside door handles shaved and smoothed (why?), still with stock cats and mufflers. Good paint all the way around. Stock with 12" rotors and aluminum 2-piston calipers up front. 2. 1994 Mustang GT ($1800 obo, I'm willing to pay $1500), automatic tranny (would need a 5-speed swap, I already have most parts except trans and bellhousing, so figure $700 there), between 100k and 150k miles, typical faded Laser Red paint (LR quarter panel was repainted), dent above RR wheel well, aftermarket off-road exhaust, cold air intake, 2003 Cobra 17x9 wheels. Stock with 12" rotors and cast iron 1-piston calipers up front. I realize that I can recoup costs by selling off the airbags ($500 for the set all day long on eBay), seats, interior trim, etc. I have parted out enough V6 SN95 Mustangs to know that there's a bunch of money there. So, basically, it's a choice between a 1994 5.0L SN95 Mustang that needs a 5-speed swap or a 2002 4.6L SOHC Mustang that needs an engine but costs about $700 more up front. I can do all my own labor, so that's not an issue. Thoughts? Mark Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adam Ginsberg Posted December 2, 2007 Share Posted December 2, 2007 Get the 2002, and install a 5.0L pushrod motor. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TurboShortBus Posted December 2, 2007 Author Share Posted December 2, 2007 Get the 2002, and install a 5.0L pushrod motor. Good point, always an option. Fresher chassis with an engine I can rebuild in a 7-11 parking lot. I just might be in a bit of a time crunch though, since I signed up for an HPDE on January 5. Mark Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
King Matt1548534716 Posted December 2, 2007 Share Posted December 2, 2007 The 02 sounds like it's been hacked and butchered. I've made the mistake of buying cars like that cheap, thinking it would be easy to sort them out, but every time you turn a bolt, you find something the previous hack owner screwed up or cobbled together. I'd stay clear of that unless you are going to strip it to a tub and rebuild from the ground up. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
King Matt1548534716 Posted December 2, 2007 Share Posted December 2, 2007 Another minor issue with the 2002 is the fuel system. Starting in 2000, Ford went to a returnless fuel system, so to swap a 5.0L, you will have to add a return line and change the fuel pump, not to mention rewire the engine harness and swap the k-member. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TurboShortBus Posted December 2, 2007 Author Share Posted December 2, 2007 Mechanically, the 2002 doesn't seem horrible. This kid had a different mindset...he had 3 LCD screens inside, a Playstation, and other little toys and crap that were stolen from the car. The engine, while fubar, appears 100% bone stock from the outside, and the original cats and mufflers somewhat support that. But, I agree, the aftermarket front bodywork (he swears that it's never been in a wreck) and the big pimpin shaved door handles are a bit on the retarded side. Eventually, this thing will be gutted. Mark Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TurboShortBus Posted December 2, 2007 Author Share Posted December 2, 2007 Another minor issue with the 2002 is the fuel system. Starting in 2000, Ford went to a returnless fuel system, so to swap a 5.0L, you will have to add a return line and change the fuel pump, not to mention rewire the engine harness and swap the k-member. Oh, definitely. If a 5.0L went in, then I'd yank every wire out of the car, slap in a 5.0L engine harness, wire it to my own fuse panel, and run push-lock hoses for the fuel system. A friend of mine runs a Mustang parts salvage warehouse, so he should have some stuff lying around. I actually think the returnless shenanigans started in 1998. It's definitely not the "quicker" way to get on track, though. Lots of garage time involved! Mark Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
King Matt1548534716 Posted December 2, 2007 Share Posted December 2, 2007 All of that for a car that's less aerodynamic than the 94! Plus you'll have to un-shave those door handles per the rules. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TurboShortBus Posted December 2, 2007 Author Share Posted December 2, 2007 All of that for a car that's less aerodynamic than the 94! Plus you'll have to un-shave those door handles per the rules. Yeah, I was flipping through my hard copy of the CMC rules while I was in the 2002 guy's front yard...I remembered reading something somewhere about the exterior door handle requirement, but I must have skimmed right past that part. It just makes sense to have door handles, anyway...all the shaved handles do is give me another way to lock the keys in the car! And, if the battery dies, and the windows are up, then there's no way to get into the car, since the electric latch popper won't work! I'm now leaning toward the 1994 GT (even though it would need a tranny swap), since the engine wiring harness is much simpler (even in the dashboard), and it would be easier to gut without worrying about the diagnostic harness and all of the other insane wiring that goes into the mod motor cars. Then again, full-out gutting might not be needed for a 3150 lb car, since it shouldn't be too hard to get down to that weight. Mark Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TurboShortBus Posted December 2, 2007 Author Share Posted December 2, 2007 I just did a little quick math: 2002 GT: $2200 purchase + $1200 engine + $100 misc = $3500 to get on-track 1994 GT: $1500 purchase + $800 trans swap + $200 aluminum calipers - $300 auto tranny resale = $2200 to get on-track hmmmmm lol Mark Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
K Shaw Posted December 2, 2007 Share Posted December 2, 2007 Hey dude. Why dont you just rebuild your HPDE 1 car. Didnt you wreck this car your first time ever on a race track. kyle Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TurboShortBus Posted December 2, 2007 Author Share Posted December 2, 2007 Hey dude. Why dont you just rebuild your HPDE 1 car. Didnt you wreck this car your first time ever on a race track. kyle I absolutely did, but thanks for being an assclown and hijacking all of my threads on here. It's nice to see that you have nothing else better to do with your weekend. Find me a 1994-95 5-speed GT if you're so bored today. Mark Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MHISSTC Posted December 2, 2007 Share Posted December 2, 2007 Here's one. Craigslist seems to be full of them if you don't happen to run across them in person. I apologise for the bad cell phone pics, but that's the best I could do on a frosty November morning while I was in Holden, MO outside Kansas City during the Thanksgiving holiday. I didn't manage to check it out, but it does have Cobra wheels, appears to be straight, and already has a "race car" paint job. The price on the windshield is $3500. I'm sure that would be negotiable. The phone number is there too, but I can't make it out in the picture and I didn't write it down at the time. My sister and Mom live a couple blocks away, so if anyone is interested in this car, I can get the phone number, and could possibly also arrange some transportation/delivery to western KS or the Colorado front range area. Best of luck finding a car. Scott Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TurboShortBus Posted December 2, 2007 Author Share Posted December 2, 2007 Hey Scott, Thanks for the help! Sorry, but I should have posted that I'm looking for something in the Central Florida area. However, it's probably a good candidate for somebody in the midwest. I've been hitting up Craigslist, AutoTrader.com, Cars.com, and eBay pretty heavily this weekend. Mark Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
K Shaw Posted December 2, 2007 Share Posted December 2, 2007 Hey dude. Why dont you just rebuild your HPDE 1 car. Didnt you wreck this car your first time ever on a race track. kyle I absolutely did, but thanks for being an assclown and hijacking all of my threads on here. It's nice to see that you have nothing else better to do with your weekend. Find me a 1994-95 5-speed GT if you're so bored today. Mark nah. It only took like three minutes to clown on ya. kyle Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MHISSTC Posted December 2, 2007 Share Posted December 2, 2007 Best of luck to you. It sounds like you know the usual sources and have some good contacts. I'm sure you'll find something. Whenever I'm looking for Mustangs or Mustang parts, there seems to be no shortage of them in Florida. Forgive me since this probably isn't the best place for it, but, as one of your friendly and concerned NASA HPDE Group 1 Leaders, I can not resist the urge to comment. I've read all of the pertinent forum threads and I'm not asking for any further explanation. I do not have access to all sides of the story and will not begin to point the finger of blame for your accident in any particular direction (although I have seen it successfully argued that any accident is always the driver's fault). However, I would like to let you know that while occasionally "stuff happens", NASA HPDE is supposed to be a place that remains absolutely accident free, no matter if you are running a $600 Mustang or a $120k Bentley. Yes, I've seen combinations like that out on the track together before. Combinations like that are possible because everyone in HPDE 1 is out there with the understanding that everyone will be cautious, curtious, and will be learning to consistently drive the "safe" line and not the "fast" line, regardless of prior experience. I would also like you to know if there is EVER an accident while running in any of the NASA HPDE groups, especially in Group 1, GIANT RED FLAGS go up. Deserved or not, you and anyone else involved can count on being watched like a hawk until such time as you prove this accident was really just a bad set of circumstances (stuff happens) and not a result of poor decisions, actions, or attitudes. Be ready for it. In the mean time continue to reflect upon the accident and consider it a learning experience in which a significant amount of good fortune prevented you, your instructor, and anyone else from getting injured. I encourage you to participate in additional HPDE events with the intent of eventually running in CMC. Be open to input and allow your experience and skill set to grow before going W2W. By the time you reach CMC, you will be a welcome addition to the group. One last thing, good or bad, if they say so or choose to remain quiet, everyone sees the red flags and is keeping a watchful eye on them. Kyle just happened to be the one who announced their presence with a bullhorn instead of a whisper. Best Wishes Scott Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
K Shaw Posted December 2, 2007 Share Posted December 2, 2007 BTW. MHISSTC was my HPDE1 instructor. kyle Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TurboShortBus Posted December 3, 2007 Author Share Posted December 3, 2007 I feel that I've probably reflected on it a pretty good amount, and I've beaten myself up about it enough over the last week. I got the scathing email from NASA-FL 2 days ago, and I understand what the deal is. I don't mind being reprimanded by the NASA-FL directors/instructors who I report to or will be racing with, but people who weren't there (in particular, Kyle and his buddy Glenn, with their assclownish manner of delivery...not referring to Scott here) would probably do best to mind their own business and skip the abrasive lectures, because nobody, and I mean nobody, is above making a mistake. I know exactly what happened, I certainly don't plan to repeat it, so I think it's time to move on. Now, back to the regularly scheduled thread. Mark Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
j dawes Posted December 5, 2007 Share Posted December 5, 2007 hey just a quick comment on your 'unfortunate situation' and other's reactions. i'm in a similar position as you are [from what i can tell in the 'forum' world]. looking for the best deal on an HPDE car to eventually run in CMC, and i already have a 'bad rep' because i've gone off course too many times in just two events. my instructors pointed out afterward that i did the right thing once i realized i was going off and that i did the right thing when i returned safely to the course. but it doesn't change the fact that i need to learn to drive within my limits and within the limits of whatever i'm driving. i am realizing that 1. i need a thicker skin because i was hounded for a while with pictures of my 'off' at VIR and i let it get to me. the midatlantic CMC guys harsh on each other all the time so it's to be expected, and 2. NASA takes any of this stuff seriously [obviously as you have already experienced] and will watch us hawkishly, for our own good and for the 'good of the group' [now drink the coolaid lol...]. i guess what i'm saying [to you and to myself] is i'm in the same boat, so hang in there, drive safely, have fun, then go fast...and good luck with the car search!!! i currently have a 94 GT, an 07 GT [for sale], a CMC car in the works with no motor, and an 87 GT engine i bought for $150 to go in one of the cars one of these days!!! i figure if i buy enough stuff i'll be able to have at least one solid car come time for the first NASA event, lol... jon Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TurboShortBus Posted December 5, 2007 Author Share Posted December 5, 2007 Hey Jon...let me know if the "for sale" sign moves from the 07 Mustang to the 94 GT. lol And thank you for the encouragement. Mark Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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