SVO shocks

[RichV]

Hello, new here. In build currently.

 

I have a Mustang with the full SVO drivetrain that is getting a 302 swap, etc. My question is on the Koni strut/shocks.

 

They are almost new, all 4. Curretnly the car has the SVO springs which I will be changing to a 850/300 lb springs. Will the Konis be ok? Or do I need to get, at least the fronts, for a V8 car?

 

Thanks!!

[stevepoe]

Will the Konis be ok? Or do I need to get, at least the fronts, for a V8 car?

 

Hey Rich,

 

Will it work? Probably. will it work well for a track car...probably not.. if it's your budget then I would say it would be ok to start with. Keep in mind you can contact koni and have those rebuilt and you may even be able to change the valving. da's are $140 each for a rebuild so I'm sure they would be less then that to have rebuilt.

 

Also, I think you will want alot more front spring rate.......

[Al F.]

Well, before you go spending a bunch of money, have a chat w/James Proctor about how fast you can go using the shocks you have. (teaser: lap record and off the shelf shocks)

 

Get the car safe and legal, then drive, drive drive...let the car tell you what you need to spend money on. You might be surprised.

[RichV]

My plan is to get it on the track 1st, then next year (80/09) work on making it more competitive. I will research the spring rates some more. The Konis are adjustible, and on my 85 SVO they work well.

 

I've got the motor plus most of the stuff I need already. Can't wait for the wiring abortion!?!

[stevepoe]

I've got the motor plus most of the stuff I need already. Can't wait for the wiring abortion!?!

 

get a painless wiring kit $400 worth every cent and yank 20 lbs of wiring out of the car. you can wire the rest yourself with a small fuse box.

 

Also you may consider e-bay thos e konis. those svo freaks will pay top notch if they are origianl and good shape. if you can get good money for them you can pay the difference for a set of bil s or da's

[MHISSTC]

so...

the secret CMC build is out

 

Unless you have a wiring diagram, are super-a$$ cheap (like Dave T. and I), and enjoy a challenge, I will heartily endorse the Painless wiring kit. Either that our get yourself a cat to do it for you like we did.

 

 

 

You'll be surprised at how little of that giant mess is actually needed to actually make the car run. Most of it is for all the comfort and convenience items. If you dont' need wipers or lights, you can get rid of almost all of it. If you're running an EFI engine, most of the wiring is going to and from the computer in the harness in the engine compartment. If you're running a carbed setup, even less is needed.

[TurboShortBus]

My response below will ASSume that you're using the SVO front suspension as well...K-member, A-arms, spindles, etc. So, if you're not, then all of this is junk.

 

I don't believe that just any old typical Fox Mustang strut will interchange with an SVO strut...not dimensionally, anyway. I think that there are differences in the spindle thicknesses (SVO may be thinner...it's an 82-83ish Lincoln Continental piece, something like that), so if you use other Fox struts, you will find that the strut mounting "ears" are spaced too far apart to properly bolt up. Maybe some washers can make up the difference, maybe a machined spacer if you feel like being a little less ghetto about it, but it isn't exactly the "right" way to do it.

 

Also, there might be a difference in the length of threaded rod at the top of the strut shaft where the nut attaches on top of the caster/camber plate, especially if you are using the "onion head" SVO plates. Something tells me that the SVO struts have more threads before the shoulder bottoms out on the underside of the CC plate (I think the SVO CC plates are "taller" than typical Fox stuff), and using typical Fox struts means that the locknut on top won't fully engage the threads.

 

You may be able to find some answers on www.SVOCA.com, but you should make it crystal clear to them that you are just putting a 302 in a typical Mustang that has SVO running gear in it, and never mention that you are putting a 302 in an actual SVO. You would be better off to let kids name a teddy bear Mohammed.

 

Mark

[RichV]

I'm buying a full EEC SD harness Scott, so the wiring may not be as a big pain as I thought. BTW Scott, whats the gascan for in the car? Incase things don't go your way?

 

Mark, the car is currently a driver with the SVO stuff. It actualy has the SVO spindles/struts/suspension already on it. It drives and brakes. The front control arms however are the stock Fox arms with special bushings to accomodate the SVO spindle. The wheels are sucked in a little and I will be fitting in T-Bird Turbocoupe front arms to get the correct track width of a SVO since I do not want to change the k-member, not that it would work anyway. (Huh, wonder if that's legal?? anyone?)

[TurboShortBus]

I'm not totally sure if the T-bird A-arms are the right way to go or not. Call Maximum Motorsports...they have a guy there who knows SVOs inside out and backwards. I can't remember his name. Eric, maybe.

 

1994+ Mustang A-arms are commonly used on SVOs (since SVO arms are not rebuildable, thanks to the rotten ball joint design) to keep the track width somewhat normal (within 1/4"), but apparently, they do something inappropriate to the caster angle. Maybe it doesn't matter on a daily driver, but it seems to be a big deal with the road race crowd. Now, I don't know if the 94+ arms are the same as the T-bird arms or not.

 

Do you have a Fox or an SVO K-member?

 

Mark

[RichV]

The K member is a stocker Fox. The Notch is originaly a 4 popper. The motor/trans/rear along with the front suspension is 85 SVO currently. It will make it's way to a 5.0, but the rest will stay as-is, except for springs. Eventualy it will get more mods. I just want to get it on-track by mid-end 2008.

[TurboShortBus]

I think that, if you have a standard Fox K-member with standard Fox A-arms, then you have the right combo. I'm not sure what the spindles do to track width, though. Check with the guys at Maximum Motorsports, though.

 

Mark

[K Shaw]

lol.

 

Lots of mis information there.

 

The only thing Rich needs on the car is 87-88 Thunderbird turbo coupe control arms (same control arm used on 87-93 Saleen mustangs should be legal as the rules state you can use Saleen special model parts.) to move the spindle out farther and make the track width the same as the rear end with the SVO brakes. The car already has SVO spindles with the MM ball joint adapters on the font along with the svo brakes/master/prop valve installed. Its a old school way of doing things and the SVO spindles help with some of the ackerman steering problems that the foxs are known for.

 

I also wouldnt worry to much about the svo struts at this time. The springs he will be using are not much heavier than "C" springs and the SVO konis where originally valved for "C" springs and by the time the car is gutted down up front it will probably weigh the same if not less than a full weight svo on the front nose.

 

And as was mentioned they can be revalved at a later date.

 

The car was/is being built on a low budget with the best of the old school factory parts. With super sexy honkey boy Cody making the switch to Astronomical Income racing the car should be some what competitive in our region.

 

The real question is why is it that I will be racing against two of my former mustangs next year in a CAMARO. RichVs notch used to be mine and Daves great pumpkin 86 lx hatch (aka red pile of death) was also mine before it was painted orange and red.

 

This is going to be fun. RichV and I have been racing against each other for years and we get pretty competitive at times.

 

later

 

kyle

[K Shaw]

My response below will ASSume that you're using the SVO front suspension as well...K-member, A-arms, spindles, etc. So, if you're not, then all of this is junk.

 

I don't believe that just any old typical Fox Mustang strut will interchange with an SVO strut...not dimensionally, anyway. I think that there are differences in the spindle thicknesses (SVO may be thinner...it's an 82-83ish Lincoln Continental piece, something like that), so if you use other Fox struts, you will find that the strut mounting "ears" are spaced too far apart to properly bolt up. Maybe some washers can make up the difference, maybe a machined spacer if you feel like being a little less ghetto about it, but it isn't exactly the "right" way to do it.

 

Also, there might be a difference in the length of threaded rod at the top of the strut shaft where the nut attaches on top of the caster/camber plate, especially if you are using the "onion head" SVO plates. Something tells me that the SVO struts have more threads before the shoulder bottoms out on the underside of the CC plate (I think the SVO CC plates are "taller" than typical Fox stuff), and using typical Fox struts means that the locknut on top won't fully engage the threads.

 

You may be able to find some answers on www.SVOCA.com, but you should make it crystal clear to them that you are just putting a 302 in a typical Mustang that has SVO running gear in it, and never mention that you are putting a 302 in an actual SVO. You would be better off to let kids name a teddy bear Mohammed.

 

Mark

 

Due. Not being a jerk here OK. However all of the parts that you dont think will fit have been on that car for over 7 years. Mixing SVO parts was kind of a old school way of doing things long before MM or Griggs where making go fast goods for the car. It works. Not as well as all of the new parts out there but it does work.

 

kyle

[TurboShortBus]

No problem...wrong is wrong, after all.

 

In that case, I'll have to do some investigation to determine exactly which struts are on my 1986 SVO. According to NAPA, they are SVO-replacement units, but the aforementioned spindle spacer and CC plate nut issues are there, so something isn't quite kosher with my particular combo, and I figured that it would apply to others, that's all.

 

Mark

[RichV]

Mark, you probably have the monroe replacements. They are just replacement inserts into the Koni strut housing. My 85 had those as well. I thought they were Konis because they were red, did not know about the inserts until I bought a replacement set off ebay.

[TurboShortBus]

Mark, you probably have the monroe replacements. They are just replacement inserts into the Koni strut housing. My 85 had those as well. I thought they were Konis because they were red, did not know about the inserts until I bought a replacement set off ebay.

 

I'll try to check tonight. All I can really remember right now is that they are silver. Now that I think of it, they might have KYB labels on them. I'll see.

 

Mark

[MHISSTC]

According to NAPA, they are SVO-replacement units

 

I think the issue there might be the subtle yet significant difference in interpretation the aftermarket and parts suppliers have when referring to "direct replacement" parts. "Yup, we've figured out how to make our [insert brand here] struts work in your SVO.", could be a lot different than having the SVO-specific Konis. You don't know exactly. The general non-enthusiast parts buying public could care less, but for the enthusiast in a specific application, it could make a world of difference.

 

A quick check of NAPA online shows the same KYB made front strut model number ATMK235005 for both an '85 SVO and an '85 5.0 GT. As for front springs, NAPA online shows the same replacement front springs for an SVO with A/C as for the 5.0 GT with manual and A/C and the 5.0 GT without A/C. The 5.0s with automatic had different springs. What's the difference? I don't know. It's not available online, but I don't believe the counter guy has information on shock valving rates or spring rates or could even tell you if those springs are linear rate or progressive rate.

 

There is a similar issue if you ever visit a body shop for a repairs following an accident. The ones I've been to have asked specifically if I want the factory approved parts or the cheaper Chinese made reproduction parts. When it was my daily driver Jeep Cherokee I was all for saving a few bucks knowing I was going to use the car up and sell it in the next couple of years. A repair using cheaper reproduction parts wasn't going to significantly affect the performance or value of that vehicle. If it were my Cobra or another car I planned on keeping for a very long time, or I knew resale value could be significantly affected, I would opt for the factory approved parts.

 

Things have gone so far in that realm now that one of my auto insurers actually sent me letter this year asking for my approval to specifically state in my policy that non-factory approved parts were acceptable in any repairs made to the vehicles they covered. Since that specific company only covers my expendable daily drivers, I agreed. On the other hand, the insurance company I use for my collectible vehicles specifically states that factory approved pieces must be used if they are available.

 

Moral of the story? At this point I'm rambling and lost track, but there's probably one in there somewhere...

[K Shaw]

No problem...wrong is wrong, after all.

 

In that case, I'll have to do some investigation to determine exactly which struts are on my 1986 SVO. According to NAPA, they are SVO-replacement units, but the aforementioned spindle spacer and CC plate nut issues are there, so something isn't quite kosher with my particular combo, and I figured that it would apply to others, that's all.

 

Mark

 

No problem dude. About the only way to find these things out is to try them. I have more time than money so......

 

kyle

[K Shaw]

so...

the secret CMC build is out

 

Unless you have a wiring diagram, are super-a$$ cheap (like Dave T. and I), and enjoy a challenge, I will heartily endorse the Painless wiring kit. Either that our get yourself a cat to do it for you like we did.

 

 

 

You'll be surprised at how little of that giant mess is actually needed to actually make the car run. Most of it is for all the comfort and convenience items. If you dont' need wipers or lights, you can get rid of almost all of it. If you're running an EFI engine, most of the wiring is going to and from the computer in the harness in the engine compartment. If you're running a carbed setup, even less is needed.

 

 

haa haa haa. That cracks me up every time I see it.

 

How are you and Dave going to split up the seat time. How is the orange car coming along? I will be down at Hanks to drop the stickers off when the car is there so that I can scope out the competition.

 

kyle

[MHISSTC]

Let the thread hijacking continue.

 

I was wondering when someone was going to ask about the gas can. I can't remember if that was our brake fluid recepticle, or our "just enough to get the car on the trailer" gas.

 

[sVO related content]

With the recent discussion about wiring, I managed to recall a company in Joplin, MO called Haywire, Inc. that manufactures wiring harnesses for street rods and other vehicles. They appear to be good quality and are cheaper than similar ones from Painless. I haven't wired a car with one (obviously!), but for several years in a row, they donated a complete wiring harness to our local car club to give away at our local Rod Run. All the club members wanted to keep it for themselves, but we managed to get them to buy raffle tickets instead. Here's a link to their website:

http://www.haywireinc.com/catalog/

[/sVO related content]

 

Progress is slow on the CMC car. Dave and I are on opposite sides of our rotating work schedule, so devoted car time we have in common is scarce. Our goal is to keep it simple and just get it on the track. We've done enough to it to get a cage in it. That's the big step. After that it's just a bunch of little things. We also had Tony get with Carbotech and have them custom make some rear brake shoes for us. Yup, that's right, drum brakes in the back. We're also working on getting some custom front brake ducting and spindle plates made for the stock brake setup too.

 

It's ultimately Dave's car, so he has first dibs on actual racing seat time. I'm fulfilling more of a "consultant" and substitute drive role. We'll get the comp school done and if there's an event that his schedule won't allow him to make, I get to bring the car out to the track and drive it. That way we maximize our potential to earn points (and Toyo bucks) as a team effort.

 

Scott

[MHISSTC]

oops double post

[ShadowBolt]

 

The real question is why is it that I will be racing against two of my former mustangs next year in a CAMARO.

 

kyle

 

I bet no one racing in CMC could answer that question. Why would a Mustang guy go over to the dark side? Maybe he wants to win? LOL

 

 

JJ

[K Shaw]

 

The real question is why is it that I will be racing against two of my former mustangs next year in a CAMARO.

 

kyle

 

I bet no one racing in CMC could answer that question. Why would a Mustang guy go over to the dark side? Maybe he wants to win? LOL

 

 

JJ

 

ha ha. The truth is that I wrench on cars for a living and have had several F bods and fox chassis fords over the years. Along with a few FWD turbo dodges.

 

Basicly I saw that all of the other regions where being over run with mustangs. I remember some one calling CMC spec mustang once. So I decided to keep my Turbo 5.0 Saleen mustang, sell a few of the other cars and build a Camaro for CMC.

 

The funny thing is that the Rocky Mountain region has 9 Camaros and only three mustangs. doh.

 

CMC #71 the car in question in this thread will have alot of my blood spilled on it so its not like I am bailing out on the Ford boys. I just wont be driving a Ford. And by my current lap times that is a advantage for the Ford camp. lol.

 

kyle

[TurboShortBus]

I couldn't help but notice that the top 5 cars in CMC at Nationals this year were F-bodies. There must be something to it, but since I'm an idiot who has only owned Fords, I'll stick to building what I know, even if it's slower. Not exactly a proper racer mentality, but oh well.

 

Mark

[Tony G]

Who and what won at the nationals was not because of the type of car,it was the good drivers behind the well sorted cars.

Look at last year..Mustang, this year Camaro.

Tony Guaglione