MHISSTC Posted January 15, 2008 Posted January 15, 2008 Rather than ask if we can use the R888s in 2008, (rules say RA1s only, so the answer is no) I'll ask when we can expect the changeover from RA1s to R888s to occur. I was looking on the Toyo website today and noticed they do not currently offer a 255/50R16 R888. When Toyo stops making the RA1s, will they be adding additional R888 sizes to their lineup, will we be limited to 225/45ZR16s, or will we all be going to a new max size wheel and tire combo of 17"x9.5" wheels and 255/40ZR17 tires? Quote
Members Al F. Posted January 15, 2008 Members Posted January 15, 2008 We've gotten firm commitment from Toyo to not leave us out in the cold. We will change over, and when we do we'll give you as much notice as possible and a window where either tire is allowed. Quote
MHISSTC Posted January 15, 2008 Author Posted January 15, 2008 Thanks Al. We have another race series in the RM region that is making the transition over to the new tires this year and my team mate was concerned CMC might do the same thing. Now I can tell him unwaveringly that he needs to buy a set of RA1s for 2008. Quote
King Matt1548534716 Posted January 24, 2008 Posted January 24, 2008 I didn't see this posted or discussed yet, but I guess it's official that the RA-1 will be phased out by Jan. 1, 2009 for all NASA spec tire classes. From the National Site: NASA Spec Tire Program Update RICHMOND, CA (January 10, 2008) — The National Auto Sport Association (NASA) announced today that three classes will lead the implementation of the new Toyo R888 tire for NASA’s spec tire program. Racers in the SpecE30, 944 Spec, and Spec Focus class will all switch to the R888 from the previous RA-1 tire on June 2, 2008. Racers will be allowed to use both the R888 and RA-1 from January 1, 2008 until the June cutover date when the R888 will be the required tire. NASA’s other spec tire programs will remain on the RA-1 for the balance of 2008, but will begin using the R888 on January 1, 2009 as the RA-1 is phased out by Toyo in favor of the R888. Questions regarding the spec tire program can be directed to National Competition Manager Bryan Cohn at [email protected]. http://marktg.toyotires.com/file/30029.pdf Quote
jeffburch Posted January 24, 2008 Posted January 24, 2008 Would be neat if Toyo bucks had an extended expiration in '08. Bucks issued after the end of June could somehow be used to purchase the new tire. jb Quote
MHISSTC Posted January 24, 2008 Author Posted January 24, 2008 That was widely distrubuted across the NASA RM Region site earlier this morning. That should be plenty of notice. I like the idea of the extended expiration date on the Toyo bucks. I hope we either start seeing some CMC sized R888s showing up this year, or we get the word in the not too distant future that CMC will be going to a 17"x9.5" wheel (and possibly 275/40ZR17 tire since that is Toyo's recommended tire size on a 17"x9.5" wheel) on the same date. Quote
Tony G Posted January 24, 2008 Posted January 24, 2008 We won't be going to a 275 only the 255/40/17 and that is for CMC2 only. Next year we don't quite yet know what is coming but we are keeping our eye on it all and you all will have lots of notice if anything changes. When we phase in the new tire the old one will be given tons of time to be used up . Tony Guaglione Quote
Waco Racer Posted January 25, 2008 Posted January 25, 2008 I see that World Challenge is making the change this year, probably more of a priority than amateur racing right now. http://www.world-challenge.com/news/story.php?ID=828 Quote
tacovini Posted January 25, 2008 Posted January 25, 2008 Excellent! More guinea pig series, the better! Remember...the R888 has to pass the bulletin board tests before it gets the full green light. 1H08 will be the proving grounds and many thanks to those series who have agreed to test the tire prior to it's approval! Quote
ShadowBolt Posted January 25, 2008 Posted January 25, 2008 Any chance we will keep 16" wheels in CMC? I just bought six new wheels and had them powdercoated. This was before I heard about a possible change. Jerry Quote
tacovini Posted January 25, 2008 Posted January 25, 2008 16's are here to stay for 2008, Jerry! Quote
ShadowBolt Posted January 25, 2008 Posted January 25, 2008 16's are here to stay for 2008, Jerry! I got that Todd, but if I had known they were going to be gone after 08 I would not have purchased new wheels (and powdercoated them) for one season! Why change? Toyo may not make a 16" tire after 2008? Jerry Quote
Keith Posted January 25, 2008 Posted January 25, 2008 I am pretty sure that the CMC and CMS2 rules state a MAXIMUM wheel/tire size. For this reason, the 16" are legal in both CMC and CMC2 today. You can only run 16" in CMC and you have a choice in CMC2. Since both rims require a 255 maximum section width, it is up to the competitor to decide what wheel he wants to run in CMC2 into the future. Since the section width is the same for both sizes, I don't see a huge difference between the two choices from a performance standpoint. I had concluded a long time ago that regardless of the diameter changes (if any) moving ahead, it's no big thing as long as we maintain "reverse compatibility". Quote
Glenn Posted January 25, 2008 Posted January 25, 2008 i keep seeing this come up. Toyo says right on their site that the 255/16 will be released 1st quarter 2008. CMC Directors have been in contact w/ Toyo and was told the same. the sky is not falling. 255/16's for CMC in 2008. Jerry, no way in hell i would have powder coated my wheels. there is alot of info out there that suggestes the heat nneded in powder coating weakens the aluminum wheels. lots have seen failure in race use. in fact, i even aviod chrome wheels for this same reason. Duplicolor 500 degree simi gloss black, and your done. touch up before every tire swap. Quote
Glenn Posted January 25, 2008 Posted January 25, 2008 http://www.racetire.com/products/toyo_r888.htm Quote
MHISSTC Posted January 25, 2008 Author Posted January 25, 2008 That's great info to know. I had been poking around the Toyo website and had not seen that list of upcoming tire sizes. I feel much better now. By the end of 2008, all sizes of RA-1 are expected to be replaced by the R888. Proxes R888 Future Availability: The following sizes are forthcoming in the new Toyo Proxes R888. Size Expected Arrival 205/55R14 1ST QUARTER 2008 225/50R14 1ST QUARTER 2008 225/45R15 1ST QUARTER 2008 245/45R16 1ST QUARTER 2008 255/50R16 1ST QUARTER 2008 245/40R17 1ST QUARTER 2008 315/35R17 1ST QUARTER 2008 275/40R18 1ST QUARTER 2008 I hadn't heard anything about heat and what Glen is saying about Chrome or powder coated wheels either. I didn't know powdercoating required temperatures so hot that it might affect the metal. I thought it was only 400 degrees or something like that. How hot does it need to be and how does that compare to the heat the wheels are going to be taking when I'm using my brakes hard. If anything, I would think the heat from braking would be harder on the wheels since the wheels undergo a differential heating from the center out instead of an even heating they would receive in a powdercoaters oven. I thought the problem with Chrome wheels had to do with a chemical reaction that may lead to the metal getting brittle and had nothing to do with heat. Quote
Glenn Posted January 25, 2008 Posted January 25, 2008 http://corner-carvers.com/forums/showthread.php?t=5368&pp=40&highlight=powder+coated+wheels http://corner-carvers.com/forums/showthread.php?t=17498&highlight=powder+coating+wheels just a quick search. i've seen it talked about in other places too. the jist of it is, its too easy to get it wrong. but it can be done safely. as for the chrome deal, yes, its the chemical reaction. plus, chrome wheels can easily be traided for painted plus cash. Quote
MHISSTC Posted January 25, 2008 Author Posted January 25, 2008 That's good stuff! Although it looks like there may be a link between powdercoating and wheel failure, the information is still inconclusive. Gosh, that sounds like cigarette propaganda from the 80s. I found the wheel painting information in that first link valuable since I have a set of 16x7 Mustang Pony wheels that I had planned on painting up for the CMC car in the near future. Quote
ShadowBolt Posted January 26, 2008 Posted January 26, 2008 "I heard Powder Coating alloy rims is dangerous, and could lead to failure, is this true? No, powder coating rims is not dangerous if properly prepared, ask Kawasaki or any of the other motorcycle manufacturers about powder coating, their factory rims are metallic coated in various colors and styles. The problem lies in the media blasting done in preparation. Make sure that your rims (if aluminum alloy) are ONLY blasted with glass bead which can actually strengthen your rims and repair small stress fractures. If the rims are blasted in another media such as Aluminum Oxide or Coal Slag, the sharp edges of the particles will create scratches, leading to stress fractures, leading to rim failure." I've read so much crap now I don't know what to do. Todd at TCE says no problem and he races up Pike's Peak! JJ Quote
j dawes Posted January 28, 2008 Posted January 28, 2008 for what it's worth, here are my $40 black pony wheels. i removed the clear coat with oven cleaner then used crappy hi temp brush on paint. i've had more luck with spray paint, but once there's a nice layer of brake dust you can't see any of the imperfections: Quote
MHISSTC Posted January 28, 2008 Author Posted January 28, 2008 I was going to ask what size Toyos you run on those 16"x7.5" 5-lug wheels, but it appears that is your street car and not a CMC car, correct? I've seen those wheels referred to as "new ponys" and "waffle stars". I generally use the name "waffle stars" to avoid confusion with the original "pony" rims. Here are my ponys...4-lug 16"x7". Their finish is in absolutely horrible condition as they have evidently been repainted multiple times by people that shouldn't be allowed to paint. After doing a little bit of sanding on them, it appears they were originally white...of which I think is powdercoating and used on some special edition Mustang. They will be sanded and reapainted yet again and used on the CMC Team Incidental Contact car. All hail the 50/50 rule! Bringing it back to the discussion of tires...with the 16"x7" rim, it doesn't matter which model of tire we use, either the R888 or the RA-1, since they both are currently offered in a 225/50ZR16...which is the size Toyo recommends for a 16"x7" rim. Quote
HMark Posted October 1, 2008 Posted October 1, 2008 R888 vs RA1 Data from Toyo. http://www.cmcparts.com/Data/ Comparison (PXR888 vs PXRA1).pdf -Don Quote
TurboShortBus Posted October 2, 2008 Posted October 2, 2008 mmmmmmm...a bubble-hatch Capri...daddy like... Mark Quote
MHISSTC Posted October 2, 2008 Author Posted October 2, 2008 Thanks. The Pony wheels in that picture did actually end up on our CMC car 'The Pumpkin' in 2008. I had an original set of 14" wheels and found a set of original turbine hubcaps on Ebay to go back onto the Capri. I just recently returned it to daily driver status as I had a set of subframe connectors welded in by our CMC car sponsor along with fixing a tear in the driver side floor and welding up a custom single exit exhaust with Magnaflow muffler and twin chrome tips. It's still dog slow with the 3.8L V6 and C3 auto, but it sounds kinda cool now and is great as a daily driver since it gets somewhere in the lower to mid 20s mpg in mixed city/highway driving during my commute to work the last time I checked. I think a set of lowering springs, CC plates, and new shocks and struts are in it's future in 2009. As for the Ponys, I stripped them down to bare metal with a citrus based aircraft stripper from Wal-mart using a selection of plastic and metal putty knifes along with various grades of steel wool. Neoprene gloves are a must! What I found worked really nice with the SUPER thick original coating and other layers of paint was a metal pot scrubber. Once the coatings were softened up with the aircraft stripper the pot scrubber worked kind of like a cheese grater to remove the bulk of the crud. After that another application of stripper and a coarse steel work removed the rest of the coatings. Finer steel wool was used to polish the center and rim lip somewhat. I masked the rim and center and used a metal etching primer under a a light coat of high temp engine black paint. I was shooting for 'race car quality', but I got obsessive with them, spent way to much time on them, and they turned out way better than that. What really surprised me was the machined finish around the hub area and rim lip that polished up pretty well. The painted part of the wheel ended up with only the slightest of 'as cast' finish. Here's a pic with those same wheels all dolled up. Quote
TurboShortBus Posted October 2, 2008 Posted October 2, 2008 That old mid-'80s "Debri" is a damn cool daily driver, V6 or not. Mark Quote
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