CMC#11 Posted March 26, 2008 Share Posted March 26, 2008 I have run the H&R super race springs for 2 1/2 years on my fox Mustang here in TX. I would like to switch to a linear rate spring but can not find anyone that sells them at the correct length. I would like to stay away from the idea of buying "xxx" lb. springs @ 12" and cut off x.x" to make it a "yyy" lb. spring. Surely there has to be a linear rate spring I can get to put in my car without having to change spring perches or start cutting coils. Any information is greatly appreciated, thanks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike D1548534719 Posted March 26, 2008 Share Posted March 26, 2008 I run the globle west stuff, I used to run HR super race spring but it was to stiff, globle west has ther own web site you can call them ask for doug if you can get a hold of him. Call me for more info cell 925-628-8903 home 925-753-0440 Mike D Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CMC#11 Posted March 26, 2008 Author Share Posted March 26, 2008 I just spoke with Global West and the stiffest they have in the front is 925 lb. and their stiffest rear is "a little below 200 lb". I am looking for fronts around 1000 - 1050 and rears around 300. Keep the suggestions coming. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
King Matt1548534716 Posted March 26, 2008 Share Posted March 26, 2008 If you are looking for front springs in increments that are not readily available from the traditional "Mustang" suppliers, you can use a 5x9-inch circle track spring, which is available from numerous sources in 25-pound increments. It will be too short to use as a direct replacement, but you can use either a fixed or adjustable spring spacer to set the correct ride height. One advantage of this is a huge savings in cost. I called up Steeda once looking for a specific spring rate and they quoted me over $200 for a set of springs. I later bought the same springs direct from SSS for $109. I have a used roundy-round parts store near me and I bought a used set of 1050-pound 5x9 springs for 40 bucks. FWIW, I threw a set of H&R super race springs on a spring tester, and even though they are rated at 950-1050, they had less than 850 pounds of rate at ride height. I was surprised they were so far off from the rating. Could have been the tester, but it was a brand-new unit. Still probably worth double-checking that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Al F. Posted March 28, 2008 Members Share Posted March 28, 2008 Just make sure that "adjustable" spring spacer cannot be adjusted without removing the spring Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CMC#11 Posted March 28, 2008 Author Share Posted March 28, 2008 Thanks Matt. I had wanted to use a stock fitting spring but it is obvious that they do not exist. I looked at the SSS website and also a few others and have found some that will work with some spacers. I need to find a little extra speed so I can grow that 1 point lead I have over Ginsberg in points. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Glenn Posted March 29, 2008 Share Posted March 29, 2008 Thanks Matt. I had wanted to use a stock fitting spring but it is obvious that they do not exist. I looked at the SSS website and also a few others and have found some that will work with some spacers. I need to find a little extra speed so I can grow that 1 point lead I have over Ginsberg in points. just ride his bumper, he'll eventually spin. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tony G Posted March 29, 2008 Share Posted March 29, 2008 With those rates I dont think you will make 1 lap with out sliding off the track and or spinning out Go no more than 900 front and up to 225 rear max. My car has 800 fronts and 200 rears and Ive tried everything out there. 900/200 is a real good set up also and a little better than my 800 set up but I have a detroit locker and need a little less push. Tony Guaglione Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
King Matt1548534716 Posted March 29, 2008 Share Posted March 29, 2008 The difference in actual wheel rate between an 800 and 1000 front spring on a Fox is only about 50 pounds. Some people like their cars sprung more softly than others, but you will definitely not "spin off the track" with 1000 pound fronts. 300 pound rears, on the other hand, not too sure about that. My Fox was terrible with HR Super Race rears, which are a little softer than 300. It was like a light-switch with snap oversteer. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jeffburch Posted March 29, 2008 Share Posted March 29, 2008 Thanks Matt. I had wanted to use a stock fitting spring but it is obvious that they do not exist. I looked at the SSS website and also a few others and have found some that will work with some spacers. I need to find a little extra speed so I can grow that 1 point lead I have over Ginsberg in points. Can't see the forest for the trees! He won't make all events so set your sites a tad higher. jb Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tacovini Posted March 30, 2008 Share Posted March 30, 2008 I just spoke with Global West and the stiffest they have in the front is 925 lb. and their stiffest rear is "a little below 200 lb". I am looking for fronts around 1000 - 1050 and rears around 300. Keep the suggestions coming. Just buy the Global West setup and you'll like it. Linear rate springs....~900/190 is sweet. You'll see how well they work when I return. -=- Todd PS- Try it, you'll like it, Mikey! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike D1548534719 Posted March 30, 2008 Share Posted March 30, 2008 Im with Todd, Mike D Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Al F. Posted March 31, 2008 Members Share Posted March 31, 2008 You'll see how well they work when I return. I dont think he has that kind of time, he is talking about this season points. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adam Ginsberg Posted March 31, 2008 Share Posted March 31, 2008 You'll see how well they work when I return. I dont think he has that kind of time, he is talking about this season points. Hell, this decade. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mitchntx1548534714 Posted March 31, 2008 Share Posted March 31, 2008 Todd has a race car? I knew he had a towel rack, workbench, storage container combo in his garage, but not a race car. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jeffburch Posted March 31, 2008 Share Posted March 31, 2008 Who's Todd? jb Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CMC#11 Posted March 31, 2008 Author Share Posted March 31, 2008 Just buy the Global West setup and you'll like it. Linear rate springs....~900/190 is sweet. You'll see how well they work when I return. -=- Todd PS- Try it, you'll like it, Mikey! Believe me Todd, if it meant you would "finally" make it back and race with us, I would already have them ordered. I'm going to give the stiff setup a try and if I hate it then I'll try something softer. I have a few ideas in the works that I am going to be adjusting over the next 2 events so ya'll better watch out. Gonna help put a Ford back on top! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TurboShortBus Posted April 1, 2008 Share Posted April 1, 2008 I recently ordered a set of springs from www.BlueCoilSpring.com based on rate and size recommendations from Tony G (thanks again, Tony). I went straight through BCS and paid full-blown retail ($55 each + shipping, about $240 to my door), but at least I knew they had them in stock and got them quickly (they didn't have any distributors in my area, anyway). I'm not sure if there are other, better sources or not, or if anyone on the CMC site is a distributor for them, so you can always check around more. BCS has a ton of rates, lengths, diameters, etc. They are generic springs, so you need to know exactly what you're looking for. Mark Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boudy1548534717 Posted April 3, 2008 Share Posted April 3, 2008 This cookie cutter 900/200 set-up has been promoted for years and the GM camp has out developed it. The Fox suffers from a 2" track width deficit, lack of front coil overs, lack of torque arm, and a four link rear that binds so bad on its own that you can't run a panhard bar without making it worse. To top it all off, management discourages developement outside this cookie cutter setup that is supposed to fit every Ford driver. Sorry, I just don't get it. Boudy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TurboShortBus Posted April 3, 2008 Share Posted April 3, 2008 The Fox suffers from ... a four link rear that binds so bad on its own that you can't run a panhard bar without making it worse. This is painfully true, although using heim joint/spherical bearing upper and lower control arms ("bushing material is unrestricted") goes a long way to help or eliminate this condition. Running stiffer polyurethane bushings makes it a worse situation than with the stock rubber bushings. Mark Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TurboShortBus Posted April 3, 2008 Share Posted April 3, 2008 I wonder if there's a snowball's chance in hell of proposing to consider a change to allow Fox cars to remove the pair of upper control arms and install a single upper link, since we're currently allowed to use Panhard bars anyway. This would basically let the 79-04 Mustangs have a similar suspension to the 05-up Mustangs. IIRC, it's still cheaper than a Griggs torque arm conversion. Mark Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boudy1548534717 Posted April 3, 2008 Share Posted April 3, 2008 Just as the panhard bar adds to the bind in the rear, so does solid hiems on both ends of all 4 arms. I can't say much about rules until I've exhausted my testing efforts and have data to back up any request I make. Besides, nothing was done about the track width deficit and that's as black and white as it gets. rb Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TurboShortBus Posted April 4, 2008 Share Posted April 4, 2008 Just as the panhard bar adds to the bind in the rear, so does solid hiems on both ends of all 4 arms. I don't follow the second part of that at all. Putting heim joints on both ends of all 4 rear control arms will eliminate bind as the axle travels up and down, although you'll be giving up some lateral stability. That's where the panhard comes in, although you now have 3 different radii of travel back there. A watts link would help with that, but is not allowed here. I ran upper control arms with heim joints on the chassis end and typical spherical bearings on the axle end in my street/strip car, and no binding was observed in the axle's normal range. The ride quality sucked, but there was no binding. If what you're suggesting is true, then the axle shouldn't have moved at all without tearing the upper control arm mounts from the unibody. Mark Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
King Matt1548534716 Posted April 4, 2008 Share Posted April 4, 2008 I ran spherical upper bushings on the housing side at a couple of events two years ago (unfortunately one of those was the first NASA Nationals) and it was the biggest setup mistake I have made yet with my car. The bind was unbelievable with and without the panhard bar installed. It was as if I had put a 2-inch rear sway bar on the car. The binding was so bad it tore the rubber bushings out of the chassis side of the uppers and by the end of the championship race, the mounting bolts were flopping around in the bushing shells and the rearend was slamming back and forth under braking and acceleration. I think you could make the spherical bearings work if you only ran one upper arm, but the car would react asymmetrically on right and left turns. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boudy1548534717 Posted April 4, 2008 Share Posted April 4, 2008 As explained to me... you have two lengths of control arms, long lowers and short uppers. As the axle wants to move up and down, the arc described by these two arms are different. This difference will cause bind in the suspension if all the links were solid (e.g. rod ends). I believe that is why Ford put the large oval rubber bushings in the forward end of the factory equipment lower arms. The soft rubber bushings allowed the arms to translate fore/aft during bump and jounce. Since you have solid arms in the lower, there is no way that lower arms will deflect, so they describe 100% of the axle’s motion. Therefore, all the compliance must be taken from the upper control arm bushings. Unfortunately the upper arms are unable to translate fore/aft enough to provide this compliance The only way for the upper arms to not bind were if the pinion was allowed to freely rotate. However, the engine torque is resisting the pinion rotation (actually creating pinion rotation in the opposite direction as the engine torque is wanting to drive the pinion up and the compression of the suspension is wanting to drive the pinion down. This suspension bind is the reason you are able to run such a soft rear spring but still have a “loose†feeling in the car. Basically you are getting the standard Mustang snap oversteer. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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