Mike D1548534719 Posted April 4, 2012 Share Posted April 4, 2012 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Glenn Posted April 4, 2012 Share Posted April 4, 2012 If I recall, the Fox needed fender mods just to run the 275/17. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mitchntx1548534714 Posted April 4, 2012 Share Posted April 4, 2012 I have a cat ... ... trying to catch a fox. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mitchntx1548534714 Posted April 4, 2012 Share Posted April 4, 2012 MSRH - January 2012 Qual 1 - Micheal Mosty, Fox Qual 2 - James Proctor, 4th Gen Race 1 - P1 to Micheal, Fast Lap to James Race 2 - P1 to James, Fast Lap to James Race 3 - P1 to Micheal, Fast Lap to James Race 4 - P1 to Dan, Fast Lap to Micheal Wins - Fox = 25%, 4th Gen = 75% Poles - 50% Fast Laps - Fox = 17%, 4th Gen = 83% Milestones - Fox = 40%, 4th Gen = 60% Competition Factor - Low, 2 drivers took 9 of 10 of milestones. MSRC - March 2012 Qual 1 - Derek Wright, 4th Gen Qual 2 - Glenn Landrum, 4th Gen Race 1 - P1 to Dan, Fast Lap to Dan Race 2 - P1 to Cody, Fast Lap to Dan Race 3 - P1 to James, Fast Lap to Cody Race 4 - P1 to Micheal, Fast Lap to Derek Wins - Fox = 25%, 4th Gen = 75% Poles - Fox = 0%, 4th Gen = 100% Fast Laps - Fox = 0%, 4th Gen = 100% Milestones - Fox = 10%, 4th Gen = 90% Competition Factor - High, 6 drivers shared 10 milestones. Here's ECR from Oct 2011. Doesn't support your opinion either. Wins - Fox = 25%, 4th Gen = 75% Poles - Fox = 50%, 4th Gen = 50% Fast Laps - Fox = 0%, 4th Gen = 100% Milestones - Fox = 30%, 4th Gen = 70% Competition Factor - Low, 2 drivers took all 10 milestones. Boudy I really like statistics ... Based upon that assessment, which I did not confirm BTW ... the 8 drivers mentioned in the "Competition Factor" comprise less than 10% of the overall field. Two names (Proctor and Mosty) dominate that list ... taking almost 50% of all the milestones which doesn't account for conditions, traffic, prep, equipment, mental state ... And those two drivers comprise about 7% of all drivers. Skewing statistics from that angle certainly makes it appear it driver and not equipment. JMHO ... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boudy1548534717 Posted April 4, 2012 Share Posted April 4, 2012 Yeah, you hate statistics. We know, we know. But that doesn't mean the rest of the world is wrong. But yes they are only statistics and open to interpretation. Merely a snapshot of results without details of what happened. So you are correct, short term statistics don't lend to accurate assumptions. However when same statistics are viewed over a period of time, patterns emerge and that is where data starts becoming readable. For example, every body breaks, or shows up without their mental game, or whatever on occasion. Single event statistics won't show that however season statistics make it less important because everybody has there share in time. Same with racing pit stops, sure you lost a lap immediately but it'll wash over the term of the race making that lose an overall minor event. I'm most certainly beating my head against a wall but it's been a while so what the hell. Boudy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CMC#11 Posted April 4, 2012 Author Share Posted April 4, 2012 If I recall, the Fox needed fender mods just to run the 275/17. That is incorrect. I ran 16" wheels w/ spacers and was able to get right at 72" (from 06-09). When I switched to CMC2 in 2010 I pushed out the fenders with stretcher bars to get the new 275/17's to the max 72.75". On the rear (on 16" wheels) I was maxed out at 69.875". I then did the small flare I have now and am able to get to 70.75" w/ the 275/17's. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alien Posted April 4, 2012 Share Posted April 4, 2012 That is incorrect. Isn't Glenn just saying that the Foxes can't even run the 275/17 without rubbing unless they do the fender mods (nevermind trying to get the max allowed track width)? I thought that was true. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CMC#11 Posted April 4, 2012 Author Share Posted April 4, 2012 That is incorrect. Isn't Glenn saying that the Foxes can't even run the 275/17 without rubbing unless they do the fender mods? I thought that was true. Nope. You probablly wouldn't have the choice of any wheel offset you wanted to run but 95% of the 17x9's would definitely fit. My very first race in Sept 05 was running 17x9 Cobra R's (which I got the approval for at that event ) and had plenty of room for them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ShadowBolt Posted April 5, 2012 Share Posted April 5, 2012 I did not want to screw up the new thread so I will post this here. I wanted Glenn to drive the Fox because I know he would give it everything he had on every lap. He has no choice, it's his nature. We saw what Rob could do in Al's car. We wanted to see if Glenn could do the same as Rob (run fast) in a platform that he has never raced. If Glenn could not run at the front maybe it would prove some points (but I do not believe it would be because he had no time in the Fox). If Glenn did run at the front in Boudy's car it should have shut this topic down for good! I purchased a SN99 after running a Fox for two years. I really thought we would be much faster. I did not notice that much difference in lap times and seat time made more of a difference than the new car did the last two years. Yes the car was more stable at speed but it was a new car (six years old instead of over twenty years) with two years of racing on it instead of six years on the Fox. It still had the same dumb rear chassis design as the Fox (and the Fairmont). Jeremiah Kellam went from being right with Jay and I (mid pack) to being a regional and National champoin in one year in a SN95 Mustang. He spent more time on set-up and testing than all the rest of us combined so with enough time and talent a guy can win it all in a Mustang. In fact I would not be supprised if he had done it in a Fox had he spent the same time and money on it. Here is why this keeps coming up (IMHO). When severial of us were just thinking about getting started in CMC we were told to get a Camaro because they were so much better. We were told this by several racers including a former multi time Champion. To hear him tell it it was a clear choice and you would be a fool to go Mustang. Then after we purchased a Mustang the people that said how much better the Camaro was shut up and acted like they never heard of this (would never admit it in public). I know this happened to Boudy and myself for sure. Then you read articles about road racing and how Torque arms and coil-overs are supposed to be the bomb and you wonder if you are not in an platform that is a little behind. We could have purchased a Camaro and had these so called advantages but we did not for whatever reason. I'm happy with my choice but I still wonder. The results we are seeing in Texas makes me believe (at least in our group) things are as close as they have ever been and the directors have worked hard to get it where it is. I was hoping that Glenn driving the Fox would help to settle this one way or the other. The question for me is not if you can win in a Fox or any other Mustang made prior to 2005. The question is how much easier is a fourth gen to drive than a Fox.....than a SN95 or 99? Or is it really harder to go fast in a fourth gen? Or does it depend on the track or driving style? These are all questions that Glenn driving Boudy's car could have asnwered. My bet is that the S197 is going to be such an issue (read problem) in the future no one is going to care about the old Fox. JJ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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