BIG CMC announcement.

[BADVENM]

Why not let him be one of the guinea pigs for testing engine components?

 

I'll be one of the pigs when I have the motor I bought from Steve Poe (thanks again) installed (by a fellow CMCer, giving them some money to spend racing:) ) hopefully within the next month. I'll be adding long tube headers as well since the motor is already out of the car with a dyno hopefully shortly after the swap. I informed our region about this as well as Tony G.

 

Our region will be going with the current hp/tq numbers next year so I'll likely have to restrictor plate it.

 

EDIT: I forgot to mention that this past year the Mighty Pumpkin '86 Stang was running maybe 160 rwhp (it dynoed 14x something with clogged cats and air leaks which we were able to fix/remove)...so we're ready to jump to the numbers that many others are/have been running. Our goal for '08 was just to get a legal car on the track...other then being a bit under weight we achieved our goal.

Edited September 18, 2008 by Guest

[mitchntx1548534714]

I would like to echo the sentiment in many of the posts above ...

 

While the change seems significant, there are only a handful of drivers that compete in this series that will be able to take full advantage of the added HP.

 

Remember, we still have to deal with the same size tire and the same relative weight.

 

If you are fretting over what to build motor-wise, build something that will last. Spend money on quality components and balancing.

[King Matt1548534716]

Right now there should be nothing stopping anyone from building a decent short-block with a stock crank and rods and forged or cast replacement style flat-top pistons. It's pretty easy to figure out potential compression ratios since there are only a few basic chamber volumes for the Ford and Chevy engines and we've set the iron head CR at 10:1 so that gives you a lot of leeway. Don't go crazy milling heads and blocks trying to get to 9.99:1. Most bolt-together combos won't go much past 9.7:1 or so and a few tenths of CR is not going to make or break you. If it's a Ford, I'd get a set of GT40 heads, have them milled a little for flatness, and bolt them on with Fel-Pro 1011-2 head gaskets, then never worry about the long-block again. I would start with an HO roller cam, even though there is a possibility that the E cam could become a legal option in the future. I would use 1.7:1 Cobra roller rockers too. If the engine is EFI, I'd starting looking for a cheap Explorer intake. If carbed, the Performer RPM is likely going to become a legal option. I would stay away from long-tubes, but look for a set of cheap shorties. You will note that with the exception of the intakes and headers, everything I've listed is currently legal, and the things that might change are simple bolt-on parts that won't require you to remove the engine or pull the heads. I would talk to my regional director about becoming an authorized test mule if your intention is to run CMC-2 in 2009.

 

Disclaimer: This is not meant to be "official" advice or a preview of upcoming rules, but it's what I would do if I felt i could not possibly wait any longer to get started on an engine.

[K Shaw]

I have ran two seasons with a LO3 TBI 140hp lump under the hood. No amount of driving skill is going to get 140hp any where near Mr. McComb.

 

I want to do the carb swap and exhaust work on the car.

 

I can not afford to swap 09 legal induction and exhaust parts on my car and then take them off next winter and buy all new stuff.

 

Kinda sucks for those of us that are big time down on power. No big deal for those that already have legal power #s. They will just be a few upgrades away.

 

Getting passed by SM and SE30s on Pueblo's long straight is down right embarrassing.

 

Anyone have a spec carb and small chevy performer intake they want to sell for real cheap.

 

 

kyle

[MHISSTC]

Thanks Matt.

 

Those suggestions were quite helpful and something I can pass along to my engine builder to pacify him for now.

 

I guess I'm now in the market for some GT-40 heads. Should I be looking for the standard Cobra GT-40 heads, or are the Explorer GT-40P heads going to be acceptable also?

 

Scott

[Tony G]

We are working on that answer.

I think that the GT40p head is a good bolt on and would love for a test mule person to try them out, so get together with your regional rep or call me and it can be discussed.

Thanks,

Tony Guaglione

[MHISSTC]

Hmmm....

 

I'll see what I can do.

[MHISSTC]

I forgot to ask about the headers too.

 

When Matt said to look for a cheap set of shorties, did that mean a set of "stock" shorty headers, or aftermarket shorties? If aftermarket, then equal or unequal length?

[ShadowBolt]

 

Yeah like that is going to happen.

 

Since there is no replacement for displacement I don't see how the 302's/305's can ever make enough power under the peak to run with the LS1's.....unless weight is used to even the field.

 

 

JJ

[bsim]

Since there is no replacement for displacement I don't see how the 302's/305's can ever make enough power under the peak to run with the LS1's.....unless weight is used to even the field.

But what do we do to even the drivers?

 

My CMC2 car got beat by the best CMC drivers. Can I ask to run @ 3000#?

 

There are too many variables involved for one to say that weight is the end all equalizer. That can only be achieved by the same driver doing all the different models at the same track and analyzing the data acquisition for each.

 

And let's face it, Some models will be better on one type of track than another. There will NEVER be "equality" unless we all have the same car. Anything else is a compromise...

[Adam Ginsberg]

I forgot to ask about the headers too.

 

When Matt said to look for a cheap set of shorties, did that mean a set of "stock" shorty headers, or aftermarket shorties? If aftermarket, then equal or unequal length?

 

Cheap aftermarket equal or unequal length shorties.

 

FWIW, I paid $40 for a set of aftermarket equal length's. There's enough inexpensive used hot rod parts out there, IMO, it doesn't make sense to spend 2 or 3x the $$ for new.

 

Just my .02c

[MHISSTC]

Ah crap...

 

I just realized Matt mentioned the Edelbrock Performer RPM intake manifold as likely becoming legal for the carbed engines. That's not the same intake as the Performer 289 that is listed in the current rules as part of the spec carbed engine. Dang. Wouldn't you know it. I already have a Performer 289 in my parts pile for the engine builder.

 

The Performer RPM is a high rise dual plane intake while the Performer 289 is a low rise dual plane intake. The difference in height between these two intakes is 3/4 of an inch. I don't think it will cause any interference problems with the strut tower brace, but is that height difference going to be enough to cause some underhood interference that would require me to cut a hole in my nice factory hood and run a factory style non-functional hood scoop?

 

Do you really think the Performer RPM is going to be needed to make 2010 power numbers instead of the Performer 289 intake?

 

The list of expenses I hadn't planned on as I gathered parts over the past two years is increasing.

heads

headers

intake

 

$ching$...$ching$...$ching$

 

Craigslist will become my best friend.

[Glenn]

thus the reason we said dont do anything but put a stock motor together. drive the car and make the changes needed in two years.

[camaro_1le]

thus the reason we said dont do anything but put a stock motor together. drive the car and make the changes needed in two years.

 

Amen!

[King Matt1548534716]

Use the intake you have. When and if the rules change and you think it's necessary, you can consider a change. I said up front that the intakes I mentioned were not currently legal, but a swap also does not entail an engine rebuild or more than about 2 hours worth of work and a set of intake gaskets.

 

However, there are authorized test mules testing the Performer RPM intake on Fords for 2009, so again, talk to your regional director if you want to do that. Or don't worry about it and build a stock engine.

[MHISSTC]

...put a stock motor together. drive the car and make the changes needed in two years.

 

One year, but who's counting.

 

I appriciate the feedback guys. I'll spend a little more time waiting, thinking, and parts searching before I move forward. We'll see what I manage to get done.

 

Scott

[ShadowBolt]

Since there is no replacement for displacement I don't see how the 302's/305's can ever make enough power under the peak to run with the LS1's.....unless weight is used to even the field.

But what do we do to even the drivers?

 

My CMC2 car got beat by the best CMC drivers. Can I ask to run @ 3000#?

 

There are too many variables involved for one to say that weight is the end all equalizer. That can only be achieved by the same driver doing all the different models at the same track and analyzing the data acquisition for each.

 

And let's face it, Some models will be better on one type of track than another. There will NEVER be "equality" unless we all have the same car. Anything else is a compromise...

 

I don't know the answer, I was asking a question. My son and I started racing this year for the first time. At the first event at Houston we were six to eight seconds slower per lap than the next slowest guy on a 1.6 mile course. At the fifth event at TWS we were only 1 to 1.5 seconds a lap slower than the fastest guys (maybe the fastest three CMC drivers in the country) on a 2.9 mile course. How in the hell will we know if the cars are changed how much of the improvement we are making is due to the changes to the weight of the car and how much is due to seat time? There is another guy in a third gen that is taking large chunks of time off his laps at every event. I guess if a guy has run for three years and he can never outrun a Camaro then gets a weight reduction and wins then it's obvious but for us newby's I don't know. A large part of our improvement was getting the car set-up correctly. I know right now even though I'm not in the same league with most of the other drivers in Texas CMC that exiting a corner with our last or current National champ next to my car that if I get through the turn as well as they do (not very often I admit) we will go to the next corner with neither of us pulling the other. I want this to still be the case after the new 2010 rules go in effect........That's all I want is the close racing we have now. I never feel like I got my ass kicked because the other guy had way more power even though it is known by all that my car is not near the limits.

 

 

JJ

[BADVENM]

Anyone know what long tube header will fit on a '94/'95 Cobra motor with a Canton oil pan? I was informed that some long tubes may not fit. Tried some google searching but havent found anything yet.

[King Matt1548534716]

Why are you using long-tubes? It's very unlikely those will be made legal for the 5.0Ls for 2010 and they have not been approved for any of the authorized testing that is going on for 2009.

[BADVENM]

Why are you using long-tubes? It's very unlikely those will be made legal for the 5.0Ls for 2010 and they have not been approved for any of the authorized testing that is going on for 2009.

 

Grrr, I was told otherwise by one of the directors. No biggy, I was gonna be one of the guinea pigs with them. I can go ahead and plan on not doing them too. Its seems like that would be easier at this point.

[K Shaw]

Dont worry Dave. We will get R dun.

 

kyle

[Holster Maker]

BadVenm, I use the BBK L-T headers w/rr Canton pan, no problems!

[BADVENM]

BadVenm, I use the BBK L-T headers w/rr Canton pan, no problems!

 

Cool, thanks for the info. I did e-mail BBK and Canton asking them this question too. Havent heard back. Thanks again.

[Holster Maker]

Dave, The only problem I've ran across is the clutch cable hits on the wide pan and no place to re-route the cable. This makes the clutch hard to push, from the cable being bent around the pan.

[Al F.]

Matt, excellent posts, thanks.

 

Please guys, make sure you are discussing plans with your regional director to ensure we experiment with the right parts. At this point in time there is little reason to believe long tubes will be allowed for 5.0 motors simply because we dont believe they'll be necessary. Shorties are cheaper and easier to deal with, and if they can make the numbers, then those are what will be allowed.