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BIG CMC announcement.


Tony G

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1) it is preferred by our sanctioning body and our series sponsors to have fewer larger groups than more and smaller groups. Having one CMC class instead of two enables easier marketing, cleaner management, and increased opportunity for contingencies without having to water them down.

 

I'm not sure I know what that looks like.

 

Ross, you especially, lets talk about what you should do to finish your ride!

 

I KNEW Al liked you better... I'm gonna rethink loaning that tubing bender

 

I think I'm going to the "ask forgiveness" model at this point - when I get the car finished you guys just tell me where it's deficient and I'll just run at the back. I don't think I can keep up with Ross anyway.

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CMC #1 - Outrunning the CMC2 cars in Texas

 

Because "the man" keeps gridding us in back.

 

Want some cake with that koo-aid?

 

 

Qualify faster than CMC and you won't have that problem.

 

When did you begin setting the grid?

 

And I'm getting there ... I just hope it's once before 2010!

 

I believe it was 2001 or 2002.

 

Then why am I seeing glenn, Al and Todd scrambling between sessions to set the order if it's already being done? Such a waste ...

 

And by the way, it was 2002. I just ran across an old photo of my HPDE ride for "New beginnings 2002" at MSR-C.

 

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Speaking of which, did the podium finishers in CMC-2 at last year's Nationals also get manties to go with their trophies?

 

Why? We all finished the race with 17 laps. You? Just curious....

 

If it matters,

We (the five of us) ran in CMC2 to try and keep it alive. All any of us did was take our restrictor out to my knowledge, no 17's, no 13's, nothing else and most were way over on weight for CMC2 numbers so the cars ran in CMC2 but were not prepped for CMC2. Apples to apples, oranges to oranges.

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CMC #1 - Outrunning the CMC2 cars in Texas

 

Because "the man" keeps gridding us in back.

 

Want some cake with that koo-aid?

 

 

Qualify faster than CMC and you won't have that problem.

 

When did you begin setting the grid?

 

And I'm getting there ... I just hope it's once before 2010!

 

I believe it was 2001 or 2002.

 

Then why am I seeing glenn, Al and Todd scrambling between sessions to set the order if it's already being done? Such a waste ...

 

And by the way, it was 2002. I just ran across an old photo of my HPDE ride for "New beginnings 2002" at MSR-C.

 

 

Sadomasochism, you of all people should know that.

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Side note...we've already had problems with T5's grenading.....what happens when we add more horsies???

 

I just got the new Summit catalog, with Tremec TKOs on the cover for nearly $2000...

 

Mark

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This doesn't really affect me too much right now, since:

 

1. I'm just an HPDE-3 schmuck who only puts CMC-legal parts on his car, with plans of eventually running CMC in the future, and

 

2. There are zero CMC cars here in Florida.

 

However, if I'm to continue in the CMC direction (if I don't get sidetracked by TT first), then I'd be a bigger fan of 13" brakes with 2-piston calipers...aka something that I can just snag from a production Mustang Cobra in a junkyard or from eBay, instead of a big-dollar 4-piston brake setup. But, I'm not sure how much of an advantage 2 more pistons would be.

 

I'm not terribly concerned about going from 230 rwhp to 260 rwhp with my 2004 2V 4.6L. I've even given thought to dropping a stock, used 4V 4.6L into the car (if heading in the AI route, which there are a handful of in Florida). I just don't think that the limited list of modifications should be so damn anal retentive. For the most part, let the cars make 260 hp by choosing from a reasonable shopping list of affordable and easy-to-install parts (headers, yes...camshafts, maybe not so much).

 

To repeat something that I saw in a previous post, I'd also like to see a little less restriction when it comes to CMC roll cage design. To be honest, lately, I've been considering not building the car for CMC just because I have a few other cage ideas that would likely be considered illegal (or at least questionable) with the current rules. Come on, now...an extra piece of pipe here and there doesn't really give anyone a performance advantage, nor does it cost a lot...neither does attaching the hoop to the B-pillars, or the front cage bars to the A-pillars, etc. But, if it's a better overall cage design, who cares if it makes the car stiffer vs only making the driver safer? But, it's not as if I'll ever show up at Nationals, nor will there be a CMC car running in Florida anytime soon, but it's just the point.

 

Mark

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As for the pushrod 5.0L guys, I hope that you haven't spent too much money getting close to 230 rwhp! I just found my brother's FFC dyno sheet from last season. He was making 219-222 rwhp and 276-279 rwtq, and that's with a relatively new FRPP shortblock (I believe it had already eaten a distributor gear, so who knows what the bearings were looking like), old and non-rebuilt E7 heads, stock stamped rocker arms, stock Fox headers, stock Fox intake, stock Fox throttle body, and the tiny stock Fox MAF with the screen still in it (all as required per FFC rules).

 

Picking up another 20-30 rwhp shouldn't be too difficult with a Cobra intake, 75mm MAF, maybe a throttle body (but it doesn't always gain as much as you might think), and even some shorty headers (10+ years ago, stock-longblock guys used to swear by equal-length 1 1/2" headers for bottom end). These can all be snagged from eBay or Craigslist for half price of new. Play with the ignition timing as well; you'll get there.

 

This is the same FFC that came in 4th at Nationals last year, and will be CFYA at Nationals this year.

 

Mark

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As for the pushrod 5.0L guys, I hope that you haven't spent too much money getting close to 230 rwhp! I just found my brother's FFC dyno sheet from last season. He was making 219-222 rwhp and 276-279 rwtq, and that's with a relatively new FRPP shortblock (I believe it had already eaten a distributor gear, so who knows what the bearings were looking like), old and non-rebuilt E7 heads, stock stamped rocker arms, stock Fox headers, stock Fox intake, stock Fox throttle body, and the tiny stock Fox MAF with the screen still in it (all as required per FFC rules).

 

Picking up another 20-30 rwhp shouldn't be too difficult with a Cobra intake, 75mm MAF, maybe a throttle body (but it doesn't always gain as much as you might think), and even some shorty headers (10+ years ago, stock-longblock guys used to swear by equal-length 1 1/2" headers for bottom end). These can all be snagged from eBay or Craigslist for half price of new. Play with the ignition timing as well; you'll get there.

 

This is the same FFC that came in 4th at Nationals last year, and will be CFYA at Nationals this year.

 

Mark

 

I keep saying this about the 5.0 but it seems that the Texas guys cant get 230 with GT40s and a cobra intake?

 

Dont know why. We have several stockish 5,0 cars on E7 heads making anywhere from 212-224 on the original short blocks.

 

No reason a fresh short block on GT40s/1.7s/cobra intake tbody cant make at least 240-250.

 

But hey what so I know.

 

kyle

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the only thing i want to add is lets give an extra year of "old CMC" racing. let the guys w/ Fox and 3rd gens have '10 to run either place. then by '11 they have to be in the new CMC class and there will be no "Old CMC".

 

does that make sence?

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the only thing i want to add is lets give an extra year of "old CMC" racing. let the guys w/ Fox and 3rd gens have '10 to run either place. then by '11 they have to be in the new CMC class and there will be no "Old CMC".

 

I'm down wit dat.

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I just don't want to be left as a minority in 09 or 10 with a small group to race. In TX we have had 3 CMC2 cars all year with 10-13 CMC cars regularly.

If next year those numbers are switched then I want to be able to compete with the majority.

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I just don't want to be left as a minority in 09 or 10 with a small group to race. In TX we have had 3 CMC2 cars all year with 10-13 CMC cars regularly.

If next year those numbers are switched then I want to be able to compete with the majority.

 

All you have to do is upgrade. Simple, no? Oh, and if you don't comply --- uh I mean upgrade --- then you can go pound sand somewhere by yourself.

 

Did I type that out loud?

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realize that no changes are happening for '09.

i propose '10 being a crossover year w/ either/or for Fox and 3G's. they can do the upgrades after '09 and move or wait till after '10. no reason you couldnt take one of those years and slpit it. then by '11 its all one big family again. you will possibly see some migrating and small classes (just like now w/ CMC-2 in TX or CMC in Cali). best plan its to all work together and pick a date. help one another. have a Fox CMC upgrade day, then one for the GM's. also it helps if you all agree to move together. we have lots of Fox's and 3G's here. it would be smart to work together.

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realize that no changes are happening for '09.

i propose '10 being a crossover year w/ either/or for Fox and 3G's. they can do the upgrades after '09 and move or wait till after '10. no reason you couldnt take one of those years and slpit it. then by '11 its all one big family again. you will possibly see some migrating and small classes (just like now w/ CMC-2 in TX or CMC in Cali). best plan its to all work together and pick a date. help one another. have a Fox CMC upgrade day, then one for the GM's. also it helps if you all agree to move together. we have lots of Fox's and 3G's here. it would be smart to work together.

That sounds perfect. The RM region did it best when they all got together and planned to all run CMC this year vs. splitting the class.

I think an organized move is best, just tell me when.

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It sounds like the decision has been made to switch over in 2010 or did I read that wrong?

 

PS

 

 

Wah....Wah...Wah...I'm from Texas....Wah...Wah...Wah

 

"Why was this last minute change sprung on us?....We deserve more than a 2 year heads up!"

 

Where are all the "CMC Class Dilution Complaints" now?

 

crying-baby.jpg

 

At this time, I don't have anything constructive to add to this thread, but after reading it from start to finish all I see is Texas Tunnel Vision. Let's start thinking big picture guys. Let's face it...CMC-2 times are extremely competitive with current CMC times. It's only going to take a few tweaks to make this one big honkin' class...nationwide! Personally, I don't plan to change to 17's, 13's and 260 for a while...and come 2010, bet I can still get in the Top 5 with the old skewl setup.

 

We've got time to figure this out and no-one is getting run out of town with their current set-up. Buck up, guys and let's show some Texas Pride...home of the National CMC Champion!

 

-=- Todd Covini

Texas CMC Director

 

PS- The real reason for the combined classes is so that we can save the expense of creating a fancy-dancy CMC-2 travelling trophy in Texas.

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PS- The real reason for the combined classes is so that we can save the expense of creating a fancy-dancy CMC-2 travelling trophy in Texas.

 

I KNEW IT!!!!!!!!

 

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I found a 4.8L from a '03 Silverado cheap.

This would make a great CMC powerplant.

 

jb

 

Yep, 4.8's and 5.3's would be great as they are cheap and plentiful. There are guys boosting 5.3's into the 9's.

Would be nice to be able to mix and match all the LS stuff like the Ford guys do with truck motors, etc, etc. Well at least I do run the same cam as all the chevy trucks.

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Now this is the creative thinking and brainstorming of solutions we were looking for! Keep 'em coming.

 

As Tony mentioned in the announcement, we've provided the vision for the next decade beginning in 2010. We don't have all the answers as to exactly how that will look just yet, but input, research & development into making that 2010 vision a reality is what we need!

 

It's unfortunate for the handful of folks that have motors in the shop right now and are in a conundrum. For those folks, don't sit back and wait. I would contact one of your series directors ASAP for more insight. We don't have all the answers, but we can hopefully shed some light as to where it looks like things are going.

 

Bottom line...no car will be obsolete. The future ruleset will take 302/305 cars into account and there will be accomodations for all CMC & CMC-2 cars. If it were me.....stay the course...rework sucks. It'll be 3 years before you start to realize you want or need something different. Seat time is more important than any of this stuff.

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Todd brings up an important point to those new to racing, seat time. Running an older config will teach you a lot in the early part of your racing career. There is no need to have exactly what the top five is running if you are a complete newb.

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I found a 4.8L from a '03 Silverado cheap.

This would make a great CMC powerplant.

 

jb

 

Yep, 4.8's and 5.3's would be great as they are cheap and plentiful. There are guys boosting 5.3's into the 9's.

Would be nice to be able to mix and match all the LS stuff like the Ford guys do with truck motors, etc, etc. Well at least I do run the same cam as all the chevy trucks.

We can't use any parts from the truck motors. Every motor part came on a Mustang. Just clearing things up.

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These chevy guys are too much. Swept the top five spots at the Nats and whinning all the way. Unreal. Todd's right guys, suck it up. The first CMC2 car in the field would have finished like tenth in that race. So again I agree that nothing substitutes for seat time for new guys. Who wants all the hassle of running up front where all the hoods land and fenders get dented, and the pressure is extreme. Racing can be fun anywhere on the track when you learn the limits of your own car. Peace out.

 

ps

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