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Al F.

What is on the table so far for '09

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KiMifan

Here, take a sip of Kool-aid ...

That would make it go down easier, now wouldn't it, Rev. Jones.

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mitchntx1548534714

smoooooth ...

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camaro_1le
you can wait for the rules to catch up with your rationalization.

 

Now that is funny!

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KiMifan

What about the cost factor? The new R888s cost $20 more per tire in the 16 inch size compared to the 255/17s. At $80 a set difference, a set of used OEM Ford 17x8s would pay for themselves real fast! But to jump up to CMC-2, I'd need to find about 40-50 more HP and spend even more on wheels, tires, and brakes. That doesn't seem too economical.

 

I've seen a few people who tried to apply logic and reason to some of these discussions come and go over the past couple of years I've been lurking, so I guess I'll just shut up now.

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camaro_1le
What about the cost factor?

 

What if all of the other CMC cars have 16" wheels? Now I need to go out and buy 17" wheels and two sets of R888 to see which work best on my car. So 100 competitors now have to spend all this extra money so you don't have to

 

I am not trying to be a pain. But most people want rule changes to benefit their situation without looking at the impact on the whole.

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KiMifan

Sure, but if the stated goal is that all those CMC cars are eventually going to merge into CMC-2 where 17s are legal, they will soon enough be faced with making that choice anyway. It's just forestalling the inevitable.

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cmc35
Sure, but if the stated goal is that all those CMC cars are eventually going to merge into CMC-2...

 

Of for...

 

Will you stop typing, and go back and READ?! Only time will tell if there will be a merge.

 

We've all tried to be polite. That phase is over. The next phase is ugly. Do you really want to go there?

 

-chris

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camaro_1le
Sure, but if the stated goal is that all those CMC cars are eventually going to merge into CMC-2 where 17s are legal, they will soon enough be faced with making that choice anyway. It's just forestalling the inevitable.

 

You are making an assumption there that may or may not be true. And with the way the economy is, any forestalling that can be done, I am in favor of.

 

I really have no desire to spend $2000 right now on a 17" set up to see which combination is better. Plus the track time for testing purposes. I know for this CMC racer, that is not chump change.

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Rustang72
I can't believe guys are complaining that they get to keep what they have now and NOT spend any $$.

 

(sigh)

 

Ditto, plus...

 

(1) a "set" merge date for CMC and CMC2 no longer exists.

(2) no, it's not "pretty unfair to not implement (things) right now." CMC is still alive and well, and as such, will be governed by the same basic set of rules that has served it well for these many years. CMC2 is a different class.

 

Pick a class, build your car to that class, and come out and race. If the two classes ever merge, established racers will carry a lot more weight in terms of how to handle such a merge.

 

-chris

The merge date was set. I bought a car. I came out and played. CMC "will be governed by the same basic set of rules" was not the plan in July. You guys changed the plans.

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Rustang72
I really have no desire to spend $2000 right now on a 17" set up to see which combination is better. Plus the track time for testing purposes. I know for this CMC racer, that is not chump change.
Did you have a desire when the 17" CMC test car was kicking your ass all this year? Why would it change next year when you'll still be kicking my ass whether or not I'm on 17s?

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Tri-Agan
Sure, but if the stated goal is that all those CMC cars are eventually going to merge into CMC-2 where 17s are legal, they will soon enough be faced with making that choice anyway. It's just forestalling the inevitable.

 

KiMifan,

 

You make good points, and I agree with most of them. There won't be a forced merge into CMC2 for the foreseable future. With that said, I still think the decline of new cars going into CMC would level off if 17's were allowed in CMC. Out here we did a bunch of testing bwteen the 16's and 17's on CMC cars, and there were positives and negatives for each. My biggest competitor ran 17's this year and I ran 16's. We both had advantages at different parts of the track. We both ran the same lap times just like we always have.

 

Regarding this forum......90% of the guys in the East don't post here because it's gets ugly really fast and you will find that it just isn't worth the trouble spending time posting. One day I hope it changes, but in the meantime, know that your opionion is shared by others, just not here. Don't let a few guys bring down your enthusiasm for entering the class.

 

Kent

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Rustang72
We both had advantages at different parts of the track. We both ran the same lap times just like we always have.
Didn't he set the track record on both VIR Full and Summit Main this year? I seem to recall reading that on the NASA-MA front page at some point.
17's will NEVER be legal in CMC period. but 16's will be legal in CMC-2 and that is a fact. if at some point 17's prove to be faster' date=' then some type of penalty will be assesed for running 17's vs 16's.[/quote']255/40-17s are faster and weigh several pounds less than 255/50-16. Now that you know, how long will the rules be delayed while you figure out the penalty?
Edited by Guest

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Glenn

so whats wrong w/ you running in CMC-2 for now? you were convinced a page or two back that the fast guys were gonna win no matter what..... so whats your worry w/ running 17's in CMC 2?

 

 

i gotta tell ya. from a region known as complainers....... you sure bitch alot.

how about w/ make a class just for you? hoosiers, 17's and CMC power? we will call it Spec Rustang. sound good? i bet you win every race.

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Glenn
17's will NEVER be legal in CMC period. but 16's will be legal in CMC-2 and that is a fact. if at some point 17's prove to be faster, then some type of penalty will be assesed for running 17's vs 16's.
255/40-17s are faster and weigh several pounds less than 255/50-16. Now that you know, how long will the rules be delayed while you figure out the penalty?

 

really? so a 17" wheel will be less than a 16" wheel? several pounds less? i bet my ass its less than 2lbs.

 

our data here shows a 5lb per wheel/tire package increase for a 275/40/17 over a 255/50/15 wheel/tire package. thats 20lbs per set increase.

 

 

also - how many CMC races have you run?

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Glenn

is this really the only thread getting posteds in this forum for the last 30 days?

 

wow.

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camaro_1le
Did you have a desire when the 17" CMC test car was kicking your ass all this year? Why would it change next year when you'll still be kicking my ass whether or not I'm on 17s?

 

In reality two factors led to the mysterious CMC test car (ain't that a catch-all) kicking my ass late in the season. One is driver ability. The second is my car dropping a cylinder when it got over 200 degrees

 

Personally, I would rather spend the 2K to resolve that problem once and for all this off-season than for testing 17" wheels...but that is just me.

 

When my car was up to power it chased Lydic to CMC2 and next year the mysterious CMC test car will no longer be testing anything. Should make it pretty interesting.

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Rustang72
so whats wrong w/ you running in CMC-2 for now? you were convinced a page or two back that the fast guys were gonna win no matter what..... so whats your worry w/ running 17's in CMC 2?
Money spread over a year+ to meet 2010 rules vs money spent now to meet still non-existant 2009 rules.

 

i gotta tell ya. from a region known as complainers....... you sure bitch alot.

how about w/ make a class just for you? hoosiers, 17's and CMC power? we will call it Spec Rustang. sound good? i bet you win every race.

Have I actually asked for the rules to be changed to allow Hoosiers? NO. I suggested it as a possibility and to point out a few things that are well over your head. I asked for 1 of 2 things (preferably both). 17s and flared fenders for Foxes. When I bought my car both would have been allowed next year. 5 months later, the expected rules have changed and there are still no actual rules.

 

9 races, 7 for points. I only bought the car in July. I was planning on running in 2 or 3 regions next year.

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Glenn

so why adjust the rules for you and piss the majority of us off?

 

and your right, its all over MY head.

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Rustang72
so why adjust the rules for you and piss the majority of us off?
Why not ask the directors that? I bought the car when the rules were going to be adjusted. Now they are not because of whiners like you and Mitch.

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Glenn
so why adjust the rules for you and piss the majority of us off?
Why not ask the directors that? I bought the car when the rules were going to be adjusted. Now they are not because of whiners like you and Mitch.

 

first of all - i am a director.

2nd of all - rules dont get changes just because i bitch - trust me. and they dont get changed cause you do either.

 

i dont think i ever saw one time where 17's were going to be legal in CMC.

 

i went back and read ever post you made in this thread. the jist of it is....

you bought a car w/ less the optimum wheels and want to run the car in CMC. your faced w/ having to buy new 16's or new 17's to get the optimum tires to work. you want to run a 17" wheel tire in CMC (its an advantage over 16's) but you dont want to move to CMC-2 cause you will be at a HP disadvantage.

 

lets say i buy a car w/ 15x6's on it and there is a RA1 that fits it. if i choose to run CMC or CMC-2 w/ that set-up, i can. i'll be slower than everyone else but i can do it. now fastforward to 20xx when CMC and CMC-2 are one class. i can still run my CMC car in CMC 2 w/ 15x6 or even 16x8's if i want. i'll be slower but its my option to do so. i could sit out a few events and save up for new wheels and tires, or i can run what i have.

 

you are in the same boat. run what you have and deal w/ it (you bought the car that way - live and learn). move to CMC-2 when you buy 17's and deal w/ it being down on power. either way, you will be at a disadvantage. either way, you have mods to make and money to spend to max out the set-up.

coming here and calling me a moron, and stating things are above my head aint gonna get you where you want. you need to figure out whats more important to you. if it were me and the way things are here, i would get a nice set of used 16x8's and run CMC. but things in your region my be different. you may be better off getting 17's and moving to CMC-2. spend the next year ther and do HP upgrades next year.

Edited by Guest

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CMC#11
We both had advantages at different parts of the track. We both ran the same lap times just like we always have.
Didn't he set the track record on both VIR Full and Summit Main this year? I seem to recall reading that on the NASA-MA front page at some point.
17's will NEVER be legal in CMC period. but 16's will be legal in CMC-2 and that is a fact. if at some point 17's prove to be faster' date=' then some type of penalty will be assesed for running 17's vs 16's.[/quote']255/40-17s are faster and weigh several pounds less than 255/50-16. Now that you know, how long will the rules be delayed while you figure out the penalty?

Both the 888 and RA1 have a 1 lb. difference (27 vs. 26).

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mitchntx1548534714
so why adjust the rules for you and piss the majority of us off?
Why not ask the directors that? I bought the car when the rules were going to be adjusted. Now they are not because of whiners like you and Mitch.

 

Pot calling kettle black. LOL ...

 

FWIW ... the ONLY thing I whine about is the system. I don't care for the way change is handled. It's archaic and wreaks of old school management styles like I've witnessed in corporate America for years. I work at a nuke plant and if we implemented change like CMC does, we would have melted the whole planet by now. And there is no more regulated and scrutinized industry. So it's the system, not the people or even the rules.

 

I have said time and again, I'm sitting pretty good with CMC as it stands now, CMC2 as it stands now and CMCx when they merge. But I try and look beyond just my little world and put myself in other competitor's shoes. Afterall, these are guys I race with ... you know, doing 100mph and just 6 inches away? I definitely want them to have good and reliable equipment. I DON'T want them to feel frustrated and hamstrung for obvious reasons.

 

I had a nice long phone conversation with Kent Monday night. He cleared up a lot of misconceptions I had and I think I made a little head way in the way he thinks about me and the Texas region.

 

What I found most humorous ... is we basically want the same thing. Funny, huh?

 

Would you like my phone number so that we too can clear the air or would you prefer to just whack away at the keyboard? I'm good with either ...

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Tri-Agan

 

I had a nice long phone conversation with Kent Monday night. He cleared up a lot of misconceptions I had and I think I made a little head way in the way he thinks about me and the Texas region.

 

What I found most humorous ... is we basically want the same thing. Funny, huh?

 

 

That was nice to get a chance to get a glimpse behind the scene's at the Dark Side of the Force. Actually Mitch, you really did clear up a lot of things.

 

I think part of the problem here is that many were told that the direction of the series was heading one way, but in the end it didn't turn out that way. When Rustang bought his car we were heading towards merging the two classes. (I was one of the ones that told him that) Now the merger is in limbo for X number of years, or until CMC dies out on it's own.

 

Regardless, I really don't understand why everyone gets so worked up when a different opinion is offered. Once the name calling starts, all bets are off, but until that time I see no reason why a driver can't come on this forum and give an opinion without having someone jump down their throat.

 

Kent

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mitchntx1548534714

That was nice to get a chance to get a glimpse behind the scene's at the Dark Side of the Force.

 

hmmm ... you sounded taller than Yoda on the phone.

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Rustang72
Both the 888 and RA1 have a 1 lb. difference (27 vs. 26).
Shaved 255/40-17 RA1s weigh 23, 16s weigh 25. I don't know what the R888s weigh.
rules dont get changes just because i bitch - trust me.
Okay. Stop bitching.

 

I bought a car to evolve over a year and a half to CMC2010. Other people have made investments for similar reasons. I am considering my fellow competitors despite what you and Mitch may think. The problem is that you are not considering your fellow competitors. My decision to buy the car was largely based on http://www.camaromustangchallenge.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=2889 and advice from Kent and other drivers. You guys changed the plans and screwed me. Why is it such a horrible problem to make 1 or 2 small changes to the rules that in the long run A) will happen anyway, and B) will benefit the series and other drivers? All I'm asking for is legal 255/40-17 tires and/or flared fenders for Foxes in CMC.

 

The funny thing is that we're still discussing 2009 rules that don't exist 5 months after Tony's thread that I linked saying they were coming soon.

 

Edited to add: http://www.camaromustangchallenge.com/info.htm You're a director Glenn?

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