Why was the Great Lakes CMC Coordinator "Fired"?

[Keith]

As the former Great Lakes (then OH/IN) CMC Coordinator, I think it is fair for me and others to know why he was removed from this position.

 

I would welcome the unprecdented move from the "leadership" to "man up" and state in general terms the behavior that led to this decision, and (yes, this is unprecedented, too) not alter or delete this post.

 

For the record:

1) I am in Germany, I have been here continuously since June 1st (except for a vacation in Italy) and I don't have much knowledge about this situation other than what has been posted here.

2) I am aware of one action on his part that might have been deemed unacceptable, but I also know who knew about this in the leadership of NASA.

3) I know the circumstances under which the "fired" GL Coordinator was given the position since I was the one who recommended him. I also have the e-mails to back it up. The pathetic, disparaging remarks made about him and another (now Coordinator) when he was accepted is still in one of my e-mail folders. I saved this response to remind me why I resigned. Don't make me pull this out by blowing this off.

4) This is not the only forum on the Internet where information can be posted so if I see a BS response or my post is deleted, it will appear elsewhere. Any truly smart politician knows that controlling information is key to controlling a situation. Be smart - man up and answer this.

 

I resigned the position because I couldn't defend certain behavior by certain people. Please prove my previous experiences incorrect and state your proper reasons for your decision and be prepared to stand by it.

 

Lastly, remember, many of us don't HAVE to run CMC. We have chosen to. We can (many have in the past) chosen other paths. Show us that the leadership had a mature, proportional response to a situation.

 

...and no, it is not acceptable for TonyG to post his phone number for me to call him offline because I am somehow stupid or mis-informed.

 

Why was the Great Lake CMC Coordinator "Fired"? This is neither a stupid or mis-informed question to ask.

[BADVENM]

I have no useful response but when you wrote:

 

controlling information is key to controlling a situation

 

it reminded me of this Seinfeld episode:

 

 

Carry on

[mitchntx1548534714]

this should be a good one ... wait a minute ...

 

 

OK ... go!

[GT4Point6]

I'm unaware myself and don't know much about it so I'm leaving that part alone.

However, it seems as though you have already made up your mind on who's side you are on so I'm not sure why you are asking for information with your mind made up. Maybe I'm misinterpreting your post.

 

Have fun with this one...

[Keith]

Good point.

 

Allow me to clarify.

 

Note the word "general" early in my original post.

 

I am not asking for specifics. I am asking what "general" behavior led to the dismissal. After years of seeing the "inside", I am hopeful for a change. My post screams PROVE ME WRONG. Believe me, I've earned it.

 

Have fun with this one...

 

This is exactly the maintality that I am begging to eliminate. Certain regions have certainl maintalities that need to stop.

[mitchntx1548534714]

Keith, with all due respect ...

 

1) While the words you type say "generalities", specifics and then accountability is really what you want, right?

 

2) Being ambiguous by NOT being specific, leads to even more speculation. If you feel that strongly, name names ... point fingers. But, be respectful. Coming here and acting like a trouble maker like that Mitch guy will get you no where.

 

3)Culture changes slower than a Fox Mustang's minimum weight. The reality is that one thread isn't going to change anything. So make sure your agenda is actually achievable.

 

4) Finally, maybe you need to mcall TonyG and discuss ...

[koserv]

I'll add a couple cents....

 

As one of the few bodies here in the MW/GL region I'd like a "general" heads up also. We're really trying hard to make things work here so we can start growing this area....if you followed the posts to those asking about CMC, and if you've seen some of us engaging with some of the other groups at the track, you get an idea for how we're trying to create a fun, safe, easygoing group so the folks thinking about CMC here WANT to join in the fun.

 

Keith did us all a favor by putting it out there....so how 'bout it? Fired? Resigned? Agreed to disagree? It's not so much airing dirty laundry as clearing the air of some of the dirt flying.

 

KO

 

Kent Owens

MW CMC #30

[bsim]

I think I'm with Mitch on this one - what answer will be a good one? Personally, it makes no difference to me, and I have NO knowledge of what happened.

 

In college football, "Actions detrimental to the team" is a given answer for some infractions. Would that suffice in this case? Or are you looking for exactly what those were?

 

And in the end, do the generalities or specifics really matter?

 

"...and if you've seen some of us engaging with some of the other groups at the track, you get an idea for how we're trying to create a fun, safe, easygoing group so the folks thinking about CMC here WANT to join in the fun."

This is what we ALL want. Anything that takes away from that, well...

[bsim]

It's not so much airing dirty laundry as clearing the air of some of the dirt flying.

Muddied water, let stand, will clear - Taoism

 

The "dirt flying" will settle to the ground if we let it...

[koserv]

We were all living with the "resigned" option from one of the horses mouth's. Low key, no drama, just a simple "time to move on". One of the other horses mouth's, made a point of making it public elsewhere on this forum, that he'd been fired. You all on the side of "what difference does it make" might be right...and probably are....but it was put out there in a way that makes us here in the MW wonder what the H is going on. There probably isn't an answer that's a good one. But there may be an answer that stops the BS.

 

KO

[Glenn]

We're really trying hard to make things work here so we can start growing this area....

 

well AIC is all you need to know.

 

and for the "record" Matt contacted me today and told me he quit on Friday and knew nothing of being fired.

[GT4Point6]

We're really trying hard to make things work here so we can start growing this area....

 

well AIC is all you need to know.

 

and for the "record" Matt contacted me today and told me he quit on Friday and knew nothing of being fired.

 

From the "CMC and final Announcement" thread

the the real story is he's lucky to still have a NASA comp license. he was in fact fired.

 

So you knew he was fired but he didn't? I'm lost...

[koserv]

And I'm confused about the "well AIC is all you need to know" comment. Reread Keith's point #2 at the start of the thread.

 

KO

[Glenn]

i was told by two differnt people that he was called and told. he says thats not so. he says he quit. if i was told to call him and fire him, i could be 100% sure it happened. Matt told me his side today. up untill then, i was 100% sure the story i got was true.

[Tony G]

Keith,

This is a very personal subject, so asking something very personal about another human being and a personal friend on a public forum just disgust's me.

Even if you call me I won't talk about it, do you think I'll call your boss when your let go to find out the details of why you were let go?

[koserv]

Which brings us full circle....

[Al F.]

Keith, it isnt a stupid question, but IMHO it is a stupid way of asking it. Man up? You're kidding right?

 

Matt is no longer a CMC official. CMC and NASA officials TOGETHER decided this. Is that still too general? As far as whether he quit or was fired...well, he's been banned from this site since about Oct 23rd, and he was informed that he was no longer an official before that.

[bluebandit48]

I dont really find it personal to know why someone quit or was fired. if anything it should be used to better the next person in line for the job.

 

with that being said... wtf... matt was awesome.. i dont care what anyone else has to say about him. just starting out in cmc.. matt has helped me huge! and for him to be ban from the forum makes no since.

 

thats my .02

 

Rob

[Keith]

I dont really find it personal to know why someone quit or was fired. if anything it should be used to better the next person in line for the job.

 

This is exactly where I am coming from.

 

Note that until this thread, I have had near zero contact with CMCers other than this board for 6 months. This was not a coordinated effort fronted by me. This is me asking WTF?

 

Tony - if you and Matt had a harsh tiff behind the scenes then that is behind the scenes. If it got personal then it got personal. What I want to know is what is the leadership's statement on letting him go. There was an action deemed unacceptable by the leadership and the leadership let him go. What was it. You can be as general or specific as you choose.

 

In a properly functioning organization, this would be taken care of before someone has to ask.

 

So I ask again, why was the GL Regional Coordinator fired? The reason that this is viewed as an inappropriate question is a problem to me.

[Keith]

Keith,do you think I'll call your boss when your let go to find out the details of why you were let go?

 

Uhhh, Tony. I have never been fired from a job but I have fired other people. Yes, I actually sat across a table from them and told them they were unemployed.

 

In those situations, I also recognized that I needed to notify the other employees about why this action was taken, immediately after it was done. The decision to fire someone and the communication of that fact are items that I've always devised in parallel. This is not a unique behavior.

 

The alternative would be I fired "Fred" and then say nothing? At some point, someone will come into my office and say "where's Fred"? My response won't be "hey this is personal and he's not here and it's inapproriate to tell you why. Close the door on the way out'. Up until this point, this is what I am seeing.

[bluebandit48]

well, he's been banned from this site since about Oct 23rd, and he was informed that he was no longer an official before that.

 

it seems to me if you kick someone off the site your kicking them right out of cmc.. doesn't seem too fair...

 

not to mention he could easily sign up as a new member just under some other persons name but that's besides the point

[Glenn]

he was banned from this site just as any other person would be for causing problems. he was also banned after he was "no longer a director". there are a few folks who are banned here and are still active CMC racers. the 2008 Texas Regional Champ is one of them.

[AllZWay]

I personally think banning someone from this site for having opinions that are different from the management is a really poor thing to do.

 

It is within their right to remove him from his position, but just ban him and others is poor taste in my mind.

 

Matt's opinnions often would rub me wrong...but I still liked to hear them.

 

I really don't want to just hear the company line being spouted all the time. Matt often had great points... his delivery could have used some work, but I think for the most part he was thinking about his fellow racers.

[Glenn]

iagree w/ you JP. but when those folks are asked to tone it down several times and then resort to personal attacks, Tony draws the line. and more often than not, Tony only bans them for however long it takes for them to pick up the phone and call him. all it takes is to pick up the phone and call Tony to work out the issue - and your back on the forum.

 

it wasn't Matt's opinions that got him in trouble, it was his repeated bashing of the Directors publically. that and other actions completely detrimental to the growth CMC.

[JWL1548534704]

Folks-

 

As I understand things, the relationship between Matt and the CMC Board degraded to the point where the Board felt that they could no longer work with Matt and let him know that his role as an official had ended. I also understand that Matt sent a resignation at some point, so the point of whether he was fired or resigned has become somewhat moot as both sides made definitive statements that the love was not there.

 

So, I think the most constructive path forward is to note that there was a difference of opinion, an end to a working relationship, and a loss of an official position regardless of who shot first or who thinks who was wrong. Now there is a need for someone else in Great Lakes/Midwest to step into that role with an eye towards working constructively with their colleagues across the country. If this is something you would like to do, please let Dave Royce or Tony know so that they can talk to you to see if the benefits and constraints of a position as an official are acceptable to you.

 

Thanks.

 

-JWL

 

John Lindsey

Chief Divisional Director

NASA