Glenn Posted December 8, 2008 Share Posted December 8, 2008 wrong. i dont want to have to buy a $1200 set of tires that only last 2 sessions just because Jim Fast As Shit has the money to do so. i also want the guy w/ the least amount of money and most tallent to run up front. i want even and fair competition. i dont want money to be a factor. i'm in CMC to test my tallent (or lack there of) and not my ability to triple mortgage my house, or out fab, think the other guy. Toyo's are pretty much the same from new to gone. i've seen more lap records set on old junk than new stuff. not the same can be said for a Hoosier. so define better? better on my wallet? better for track records? better for who? you becauase you have access to used Hoosiers? once used Hoosiers have a market like a spec class, they will not be $40-$50 each anymore. and, is there a supply that will provide tires the whole CMC community? sorry, i'll vote Toyo's each time. they suck...... but they suck for a long time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
roadracerwhite Posted December 8, 2008 Share Posted December 8, 2008 wrong. i dont want to have to buy a $1200 set of tires that only last 2 sessions just because Jim Fast As Shit has the money to do so. i also want the guy w/ the least amount of money and most tallent to run up front. i want even and fair competition. i dont want money to be a factor. i'm in CMC to test my tallent (or lack there of) and not my ability to triple mortgage my house, or out fab, think the other guy. Toyo's are pretty much the same from new to gone. i've seen more lap records set on old junk than new stuff. not the same can be said for a Hoosier. so define better? better on my wallet? better for track records? better for who? you becauase you have access to used Hoosiers? once used Hoosiers have a market like a spec class, they will not be $40-$50 each anymore. and, is there a supply that will provide tires the whole CMC community? sorry, i'll vote Toyo's each time.... I agree Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rustang72 Posted December 8, 2008 Share Posted December 8, 2008 wrong. i dont want to have to buy a $1200 set of tires that only last 2 sessions just because Jim Fast As Shit has the money to do so.Thank you Captain Oblivious. In the 16" sizes we use, new Hoosiers cost about the same as Toyos. In 17" sizes they cost about $50 more. If you want to go fast, you buy two sets a season... gee, that's the same as with Toyos. For most of us, a season isn't 2/3 of a weekend. I guess I should listen to the advice given in the survey thread and stop arguing with idiots. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Glenn Posted December 8, 2008 Share Posted December 8, 2008 the point your missing is lap times over the life of the tire. lap times dont drop off w/ the Toyo like they do w/ the Hoosiers. so the one w/ new tires will win. so in oder to keep winning, i'll need a set of tires thats as new as the next guy. if that next guy can afford new tires for each weekend and i cant, he wins. i may be able to drive better, but he basically bought his wins. this is not the case w/ Toyo's. so i can by 2 sets of Toyo's a year (which i do) or 4 sets of Hoosiers a year (because the other guy did in order to stay on top in points). yes the Hoosiers may be able to last a half season like the Toyo's, but the Toyo doesnt drop off in lap times (to the tune of 2 seconds or more). not sure why you need to start callng people names. is this what you do when you cant get your way? or when people dont agree w/ you? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Glenn Posted December 8, 2008 Share Posted December 8, 2008 Rustang72 - what region are you from? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lady in Nomex Posted December 8, 2008 Share Posted December 8, 2008 I've never heard of anyone asking to run on Hoosiers in CMC west in my seven years of running CMC. The only ones I know running them are non-racer folks too rich to care if they need new tires every couple weekends. They always smile because they can afford the Hoosier Daddy Crack Pipe! More power to them, but I'll take my Toyos. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mitchntx1548534714 Posted December 8, 2008 Share Posted December 8, 2008 Toyo ... Hoosiers ... as long as every one is on the same tire, who cares what the grip level is. Gimme bang for the buck. The RA1 was definitely that. There's been a lot of hear-say and very little real world experience using the 888s in 230HP, 3200 lb cars. I only know of one car and his weekend wasn't the best ... having nothing to do with the tire. I bet things will be oh-tay! :fingers crossed: :hoping for the best: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tri-Agan Posted December 8, 2008 Share Posted December 8, 2008 Toyo ... Hoosiers ... as long as every one is on the same tire, who cares what the grip level is. I agree, we liked the longevity of the RA1. What bothers us the most in the East is that we race in February and November and routinely have sub-frezzing temps. In fact, we had our 5 gallon bucket of used beer freeze overnight just like a popsicle two years ago and we raced in the pouring snow and freezing rain. I have a new set of the 888's in the garage and there is a big warning sticker on them that says not to even push the car around on the tire in the garage if the temp is less than 32 deg or they will crack. This may cause many issues for us out here and I don't have the slightest idea of what to tell the group. Kent Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alien Posted December 8, 2008 Share Posted December 8, 2008 What bothers us the most in the East is that we race in February and November and routinely have sub-frezzing temps. ... This may cause many issues for us out here and I don't have the slightest idea of what to tell the group. Kent http://www.tirechain.com/CarChains.htm Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lady in Nomex Posted December 8, 2008 Share Posted December 8, 2008 Toyo ... Hoosiers ... as long as every one is on the same tire, who cares what the grip level is. I agree, we liked the longevity of the RA1. What bothers us the most in the East is that we race in February and November and routinely have sub-frezzing temps. In fact, we had our 5 gallon bucket of used beer freeze overnight just like a popsicle two years ago and we raced in the pouring snow and freezing rain. I have a new set of the 888's in the garage and there is a big warning sticker on them that says not to even push the car around on the tire in the garage if the temp is less than 32 deg or they will crack. This may cause many issues for us out here and I don't have the slightest idea of what to tell the group. Kent Seems like you guys could work those months out of your schedule. We out West do not necessarily follow the schedule of other racing groups and maintain some flexibility in that aspect to better serve the needs of our group. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bluebandit48 Posted December 8, 2008 Share Posted December 8, 2008 I have a new set of the 888's in the garage and there is a big warning sticker on them that says not to even push the car around on the tire in the garage if the temp is less than 32 deg or they will crack. This may cause many issues for us out here and I don't have the slightest idea of what to tell the group. Kent i heard this was the same for the RA-1s.. at least thats what it said in the retail book at belle tire Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mitchntx1548534714 Posted December 8, 2008 Share Posted December 8, 2008 Toyo ... Hoosiers ... as long as every one is on the same tire, who cares what the grip level is. I agree, we liked the longevity of the RA1. What bothers us the most in the East is that we race in February and November and routinely have sub-frezzing temps. In fact, we had our 5 gallon bucket of used beer freeze overnight just like a popsicle two years ago and we raced in the pouring snow and freezing rain. I have a new set of the 888's in the garage and there is a big warning sticker on them that says not to even push the car around on the tire in the garage if the temp is less than 32 deg or they will crack. This may cause many issues for us out here and I don't have the slightest idea of what to tell the group. Kent Really? That means in Texas we can't move our cars for a week or so. That sucks! Thank goodness it's never 7 contiguous days ... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CMC#11 Posted December 8, 2008 Share Posted December 8, 2008 Toyo ... Hoosiers ... as long as every one is on the same tire, who cares what the grip level is. In fact, we had our 5 gallon bucket of used beer freeze overnight just like a popsicle two years ago Used beer? I don't think I want one of those popsicles. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tri-Agan Posted December 8, 2008 Share Posted December 8, 2008 Toyo ... Hoosiers ... as long as every one is on the same tire, who cares what the grip level is. In fact, we had our 5 gallon bucket of used beer freeze overnight just like a popsicle two years ago Used beer? I don't think I want one of those popsicles. Speaking of the popsicle.......What happened is this. It was one of the racers 50th b-day so I bought a 5 gallon bucket from Home Depot. I attached a 1-1/2 inch pvc pipe coming up from it and then I added a 4 inch elbow just about waist height. At his new age I didn't want him to have to walk a great distance to relieve himself at VIR in February until he got used to being 50. You can imagine what happened next.....all of the young bucks started using it until it was all filled up. One of our new rookies came by and asked me....."What's that" I explained that you go up to it and put your mouth on it and yell RICCOLA, and then it will echo. Needless to say, the rookie did it and we still laugh about it today. Now the commercial will have new meaning to you. I guess my point is that the entire bucket froze by the next morning and we just left it next to the trash can after the weekend because nobody wanted to clean it. Who knows what we will do when we start cracking the 888's....but I am sure it will be very funny. Kent Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rustang72 Posted December 9, 2008 Share Posted December 9, 2008 Toyo ... Hoosiers ... as long as every one is on the same tire, who cares what the grip level is. I agree, we liked the longevity of the RA1. What bothers us the most in the East is that we race in February and November and routinely have sub-frezzing temps. In fact, we had our 5 gallon bucket of used beer freeze overnight just like a popsicle two years ago and we raced in the pouring snow and freezing rain. I have a new set of the 888's in the garage and there is a big warning sticker on them that says not to even push the car around on the tire in the garage if the temp is less than 32 deg or they will crack. This may cause many issues for us out here and I don't have the slightest idea of what to tell the group. Kent I drove my set of (then 3 or 4 year old) 245/45-16 Hoosiers in 20* weather last December. No cracking and still more grip than Toyos. Except for the tire flatspotted in March, they're still good a year and several events later. Glenn, the point you are missing is that the best driver will win and some of us don't want to throw $800-1600 at a set of crap tires when we could spend a small fraction of that. It's just a bonus that Hoosiers are faster. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Glenn Posted December 9, 2008 Share Posted December 9, 2008 what if there are two equal drivers? 5 equal drivers? 10 equal drivers? he who can afford the new tires the most often will win. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cmc38camaro Posted December 9, 2008 Share Posted December 9, 2008 I thought I would give you my first impression of the R888. I drove 5 hours of the 25 hours on RA1s and 2.5 hours on R888s. The car was an FFR Cobra so take all my commentary with a grain of salt. I'm certain the tire performance will vary on our heavier cars. The RA1s started out lightly shaved and I ran them on a combination of dry and moist track. The R888s were virgin full threads and my track time was dry. My first lap impression was WOW these things are hooking up. This great feeling lasted for 5 laps or so and I put in my best lap times of the event. After this handful of laps the tire dropped off a little bit and felt better than or equal to the RA1s. Over the next 60 or so laps the R888s stayed absolutely consistent. The wear after 2.5 hours was minimal, the things look like they would last a season, at least on an FFR car. I walked away with the notion that the tires are consistent, they wear well and are at least at good as the RA1s. It appears a person could get away with starting on full tread tires, but I think a heat cycle or two may be beneficial. Being a cheap SOB, that's how I'm going to approach the situation. Now a note on the FFR cars, they are a lot of fun to drive , but a handful maybe two handfuls to drive well in the technical stuff. We share a lot of track time with these cars at least here on the west coast. The one bit of knowledge I would pass on is that our car are a ton more agile in the corners so just be mindful of that disparity. My hat's off to the FFR field they are doing a heck of a job with a car with lots of personality. Mike Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mitchntx1548534714 Posted December 9, 2008 Share Posted December 9, 2008 I thought I would give you my first impression of the R888. I drove 5 hours of the 25 hours on RA1s and 2.5 hours on R888s. The car was an FFR Cobra so take all my commentary with a grain of salt. I'm certain the tire performance will vary on our heavier cars. The RA1s started out lightly shaved and I ran them on a combination of dry and moist track. The R888s were virgin full threads and my track time was dry. My first lap impression was WOW these things are hooking up. This great feeling lasted for 5 laps or so and I put in my best lap times of the event. After this handful of laps the tire dropped off a little bit and felt better than or equal to the RA1s. Over the next 60 or so laps the R888s stayed absolutely consistent. The wear after 2.5 hours was minimal, the things look like they would last a season, at least on an FFR car. I walked away with the notion that the tires are consistent, they wear well and are at least at good as the RA1s. It appears a person could get away with starting on full tread tires, but I think a heat cycle or two may be beneficial. Being a cheap SOB, that's how I'm going to approach the situation. Now a note on the FFR cars, they are a lot of fun to drive , but a handful maybe two handfuls to drive well in the technical stuff. We share a lot of track time with these cars at least here on the west coast. The one bit of knowledge I would pass on is that our car are a ton more agile in the corners so just be mindful of that disparity. My hat's off to the FFR field they are doing a heck of a job with a car with lots of personality. Mike Now THAT is good information. Thanks for taking the time to share, Mike. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
roadracerwhite Posted December 9, 2008 Share Posted December 9, 2008 I thought I would give you my first impression of the R888. I drove 5 hours of the 25 hours on RA1s and 2.5 hours on R888s. The car was an FFR Cobra so take all my commentary with a grain of salt. I'm certain the tire performance will vary on our heavier cars. The RA1s started out lightly shaved and I ran them on a combination of dry and moist track. The R888s were virgin full threads and my track time was dry. My first lap impression was WOW these things are hooking up. This great feeling lasted for 5 laps or so and I put in my best lap times of the event. After this handful of laps the tire dropped off a little bit and felt better than or equal to the RA1s. Over the next 60 or so laps the R888s stayed absolutely consistent. The wear after 2.5 hours was minimal, the things look like they would last a season, at least on an FFR car. I walked away with the notion that the tires are consistent, they wear well and are at least at good as the RA1s. It appears a person could get away with starting on full tread tires, but I think a heat cycle or two may be beneficial. Being a cheap SOB, that's how I'm going to approach the situation. Now a note on the FFR cars, they are a lot of fun to drive , but a handful maybe two handfuls to drive well in the technical stuff. We share a lot of track time with these cars at least here on the west coast. The one bit of knowledge I would pass on is that our car are a ton more agile in the corners so just be mindful of that disparity. My hat's off to the FFR field they are doing a heck of a job with a car with lots of personality. Mike Now THAT is good information. Thanks for taking the time to share, Mike. What he said. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lady in Nomex Posted December 9, 2008 Share Posted December 9, 2008 Indeed, great insights Mike! I spoke to Rick Anderson about the difference between his and Karen's Cobra that you were driving and he said his was "tighter." Guess there is a bit of a spectrum within the class as well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bsim Posted December 9, 2008 Share Posted December 9, 2008 Toyo ... Hoosiers ... as long as every one is on the same tire, who cares what the grip level is. I agree, we liked the longevity of the RA1. What bothers us the most in the East is that we race in February and November and routinely have sub-frezzing temps. In fact, we had our 5 gallon bucket of used beer freeze overnight just like a popsicle two years ago and we raced in the pouring snow and freezing rain. I have a new set of the 888's in the garage and there is a big warning sticker on them that says not to even push the car around on the tire in the garage if the temp is less than 32 deg or they will crack. This may cause many issues for us out here and I don't have the slightest idea of what to tell the group. Kent FYI, it's the same notice on the RA1s (though I had to find the link since we don't need the "Do Not Freeze" warnings out here):http://marktg.toyotires.com/file/TireStorage.pdf Same for the Holy Hoosiers: http://www.hoosiertire.com/faqmisc.htm#5 I'd "tell the group" to 1) get tire warmers, or 2) move. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bluebandit48 Posted December 9, 2008 Share Posted December 9, 2008 yep... that was the same warning that i had seen.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nasa-rm Posted December 9, 2008 Share Posted December 9, 2008 Just another datapoint on the R888's. Just because one class SpecE30 (who is on a fixed spec suspension design and has no leeway in choosing components) has bad reports on the tire does not mean it's all doom and gloom. Our Spec944 racers have been on them since June and are happy overall with the tire compared to the RA1 except for the fact that they don't seem to last as long (6 weekends instead of 8 ). My personal opinion: I've gone the Goodyear route, Hoosier route (DOT and slicks), Hankook route, Yokahama 008 route (i'm showing my age now) and Toyo. Since 2000, I've picked to race in classes that spec'd Toyos due to the lower cost. I agree with Glenn, Toyos suck but they suck the same from sticker to cords. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mitchntx1548534714 Posted December 9, 2008 Share Posted December 9, 2008 I agree with Glenn, Toyos suck but they suck the same from sticker to cords. LOL ... reminds me of something Lou Gigliotti's crew chief said when asked to compare the spec Toyo to a Hoosier ... "Toyos suck ... but the suck for a long, long time." LOL Another data point that I found, not specific to R888s, but with a 16" vs a 17" tire, is that the 275/17s seem to last a lot longer than the 255/16" tire on the same race car and same driver and familiar tracks. Lap times were a tick faster, but not sure that can be attributed to the tires as much as driver evolution. The 275s do inspire confidence. Not sure if that is a good thing or not. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lady in Nomex Posted December 9, 2008 Share Posted December 9, 2008 The 275s do inspire confidence. Not sure if that is a good thing or not. I can say yes and no, had a very fast lap going at Thunderhill, went through the all important T8 almost flat out, which you have a hard time doing on 16s, then went off the next turn! Must*apply*brakes*sooner*when*going*faster! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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