KiMifan Posted December 13, 2008 Share Posted December 13, 2008 (Specifically for me is the wheel issue since there seems to be lighter wheels readily available for both Ford and GM applications cheaper then the heavier/more fancy/expensive wheels)? There's always a better part available. To a lot of people, over $1000 for a set of wheels isn't particularly inexpensive. If you are going to set the "reasonable" price at $450 a wheel, you can get wheels even lighter than the Enkeis. You're asking for the rule to be changed. I'm just asking for an interpretation/clarification of the rule as it's written. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ShadowBolt Posted December 13, 2008 Share Posted December 13, 2008 I did a little searching on the intraweb and couldn't come up with caliper only prices for 4 piston brakes such as Stoptech, Wilwood, and Brembo. If anyone finds a sourse please let us know. This is the guy I used to deal with. He can get you any part of a Wilwood system. http://www.tceperformanceproducts.com JJ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Al F. Posted December 13, 2008 Author Members Share Posted December 13, 2008 Guys, listen to what Glenn and Kent are saying; this isnt the first time we've had something limited by $ and we've never had an issue with that before, so there's no reason to start worrying now. Sale price, brother in law, going out of business...all that is not what "readily available" would consider. Its gotta be standard, every day, available any time to any body. If you buy something thats perfectly legal and the price goes up over time...we'll deal with it. Koni doubles used to be a lot cheaper (lie $650!), we bumped the limit accordingly. The entire point of the limit on the calipers is to keep guys from thinking they are at a disadvantage to someone willing to spend thousands on calipers. Really, the difference between caliper A and caliper B in this price range is negligible. Wilwood has a price list right on their web site. Any roundy round shop that sells them will list prices: pitstopusa stocks most of their calipers. OEM style stuff, and stuff not marketed to the do it yourself-er... you're going to have to pick up the phone and call the dealer. Yep, that Enkei wheel looks like it'd be just perfect...for your next AI car We had to draw the line somewhere. Wheels that light with GM bolt patterns are a lot more scarce than for Fords. Considering most CMC guys spend $200-300 for an entire set of wheels, consider this a blessing Any time you draw a line in the sand there is something that falls just beyond the line that someone really wants. If we move the line...we just find something else just beyond the new line someone really wants. Its called chasing the rainbow and it never ends. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom Beverly Posted December 14, 2008 Share Posted December 14, 2008 Yep, that Enkei wheel looks like it'd be just perfect...for your next AI car We had to draw the line somewhere. Wheels that light with GM bolt patterns are a lot more scarce than for Fords. Considering most CMC guys spend $200-300 for an entire set of wheels, consider this a blessing Any time you draw a line in the sand there is something that falls just beyond the line that someone really wants. If we move the line...we just find something else just beyond the new line someone really wants. Its called chasing the rainbow and it never ends. Scarce, or expensive? Is this an official CMC ruling? Please show me a single wheel that has the correct 5x4.5 lug spacing, is 17x9.5 (with even close to the correct Mustang offset of 18mm); that is less then 350$ (each wheel)... Unlike GM we never got a factory, or readily available, 17x9.5 wheel, only the 17x9. I can tell you that every Mustang driver out there spent more then 200-300$ retail for a set of wheels to get the correct 16x8 in CMC1 or 17x9.5 in CMC2. Why limit the weight and not the price? You're asking Mustang owners to spend more money to get the correct size wheel simply because of weight? EDIT: This is kind of a waste of time as I have been informed that these wheels will not clear the 2000R Brembo brakes. I'm now trying to find out if they clear the 13" Cobra brakes or not... I'd still like to know about other Mustang 17x9.5" wheel options that are out there for cheap. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bluebandit48 Posted December 14, 2008 Share Posted December 14, 2008 yep.. quick fix for the back spacing problem.. have them on all four wheels Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GT4Point6 Posted December 14, 2008 Share Posted December 14, 2008 You DON'T have to run 17x9.5 on mustangs or camaros. You can run 17x9 and spend less, probably be lighter too. 17x9.5 are the rule because the 9" is really hard to find for the chevys. .5" rim width isn't going to make any difference in my opinion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ls168camaro Posted December 14, 2008 Share Posted December 14, 2008 Kevin-factory 17 x9 wheels are very plentiful for the 4th Gens. I have picked up 3 sets for between 230-300 per set. Its most of the factory reproductions that are 17 x 9.5. Though you won't see anyone running those as they are much heavier than the factory ZR1's and 10 spokes. There is a factory 9.5" that came on grand sport corvettes though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
koserv Posted December 15, 2008 Share Posted December 15, 2008 Brakes and tires, brakes and tires...I see you've all missed the important stuff. I have a REAL question.... Per 7.2.3 "numbers must be at least ten (16) inches tall" Is that ten (10) or sixteen (16) inches? Jeez, I can't believe that didn't lead off the thread... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rustang72 Posted December 15, 2008 Share Posted December 15, 2008 Yep, that Enkei wheel looks like it'd be just perfect...for your next AI car We had to draw the line somewhere. Wheels that light with GM bolt patterns are a lot more scarce than for Fords. Considering most CMC guys spend $200-300 for an entire set of wheels, consider this a blessing Any time you draw a line in the sand there is something that falls just beyond the line that someone really wants. If we move the line...we just find something else just beyond the new line someone really wants. Its called chasing the rainbow and it never ends.Enkei makes wheels in 5x4.75 bolt pattern and Tirerack can custom drill many of the cheap light weight wheels they carry. Why not just make the minimum spec 16lbs for all wheels in both classes? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adam Ginsberg Posted December 15, 2008 Share Posted December 15, 2008 Enkei makes wheels in 5x4.75 bolt pattern and Tirerack can custom drill many of the cheap light weight wheels they carry. Why not just make the minimum spec 16lbs for all wheels in both classes? It's time you understood - the rules have been set. 18lbs for CMC2, 16lbs for CMC. The line in the sand has been drawn. It is what it is. Build your car, come race for a few seasons.....you'll understand. koserv - that typo has been fixed. It's 10", to match the CCR's. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rustang72 Posted December 15, 2008 Share Posted December 15, 2008 Build your car, come race for a few seasons.....you'll understand.Uhh... my car was built 4 years ago, rebuilt 2 years ago, and I have been racing. I guess we shouldn't try to improve to rules or point out loopholes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mitchntx1548534714 Posted December 15, 2008 Share Posted December 15, 2008 Enkei makes wheels in 5x4.75 bolt pattern and Tirerack can custom drill many of the cheap light weight wheels they carry. Why not just make the minimum spec 16lbs for all wheels in both classes? It's time you understood Oh, he understands ... he just got a new typing tutor program and he's practicing ... It is what it is. During this holiday season, it's always good to look back and re-live those moments that make one's life "special". Thanks Adam for that little slice of heaven. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mitchntx1548534714 Posted December 15, 2008 Share Posted December 15, 2008 Build your car, come race for a few seasons.....you'll understand.Uhh... my car was built 4 years ago, rebuilt 2 years ago, and I have been racing. I guess we shouldn't try to improve to rules or point out loopholes. LOL ... why not try driving it instead of rebuilding it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rustang72 Posted December 15, 2008 Share Posted December 15, 2008 It was rebuilt before I bought it. It went from stock 86GT to its current track record holding 234hp/300ftlb form. It does need some more work since the tub is cracked and one of the torque boxes is partially crushed. Do you have anything else to throw at me since you can't argue with my point that the rules have serious problems? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mitchntx1548534714 Posted December 15, 2008 Share Posted December 15, 2008 It was rebuilt before I bought it. It went from stock 86GT to its current track record holding 234hp/300ftlb form. It does need some more work since the tub is cracked and one of the torque boxes is partially crushed. So you bought a POS? Common tale and typically what happens when a "used, sorted, race ready race car" is bought. Why not focus on making it safe first, track worthy second and then argue about it being competitive or not. I honestly think you'll be surprised. Till then, you are preaching to a bunch of us who have been there, done that. If you were smart, and I really think you are, you'd listen. FWIW ... I chatted with Collin for a long time Friday. I now better understand you, Matt. Search on my screen name and in about the late 2004 and 2005 time frame. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bluebandit48 Posted December 15, 2008 Share Posted December 15, 2008 i dont think the rules have a problem.. you just have to be smart about it. I know it is American Iron, but has anyone noticed that Robin Burnett runs corvette wheels? i don't plan on doing anything to my car this year other than putting new stickers on it. i don't understand why every one blows these rules out of proportion. use your freakin heads.. if you can get a $1000 caliper for 600 bucks... ugh duh.. i think those might get tossed out. oh well my caliper cost 615 with tax.. lets get real. from what i can tell, the rules really haven't changed that much.. which was what a lot of us wanted.. and if you don't like that maybe you should run a different class.. so thats what i think Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adam Ginsberg Posted December 15, 2008 Share Posted December 15, 2008 Do you have anything else to throw at me since you can't argue with my point that the rules have serious problems? You believe the rules have a serious problem - not everyone else does. Honestly - there isn't an issue WRT 18lb CMC2 rims and 16lb CMC rims. Since I did have a bit of a hand in the rules (although not in this specific area), I can tell you it boils down to cost and availability.....go real light, and the rims get very expensive. It's not possible to completely avoid spending big $$$ in this series, however, one of the primary goals is to keep costs down. Lighter wheels = $$$. Lighten up, Rustang. Ooooo....nice pun.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rustang72 Posted December 15, 2008 Share Posted December 15, 2008 So you bought a POS? ... FWIW ... I chatted with Collin for a long time Friday. I now better understand you, Matt. Search on my screen name and in about the late 2004 and 2005 time frame. Did Colin happen to mention that after driving my car he thought it was faster than his? It's safe. It's track worthy. It's relatively competitive. That doesn't mean the rules don't have problems. That also doesn't mean I should waste money on what IS legal vs what SHOULD be legal. Also, if you're going to make pathetic pot shots at my car being rebuilt, why not mention that Kent and Colin's cars are trashed and need major work? I guess they shouldn't do it because in your mind that would disqualify them from having an opinion about the rules (which BTW matches mine about 17" wheels). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mitchntx1548534714 Posted December 15, 2008 Share Posted December 15, 2008 So you bought a POS? ... FWIW ... I chatted with Collin for a long time Friday. I now better understand you, Matt. Search on my screen name and in about the late 2004 and 2005 time frame. Did Colin happen to mention that after driving my car he thought it was faster than his? It's safe. It's track worthy. It's relatively competitive. That doesn't mean the rules don't have problems. That also doesn't mean I should waste money on what IS legal vs what SHOULD be legal. Also, if you're going to make pathetic pot shots at my car being rebuilt, why not mention that Kent and Colin's cars are trashed and need major work? I guess they shouldn't do it because in your mind that would disqualify them from having an opinion about the rules (which BTW matches mine about 17" wheels). Ah-Ha ... I found YOUR button! I didn't mention Kent and Colin because it's about you, right? And opinions abound ... they also differ. I see a lot of Miata neighbors in your future. It took me a while (and I'm still not there), but your opinion will get more respect by trying to get along as opposed to pushing the rope up hill. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Glenn Posted December 15, 2008 Share Posted December 15, 2008 (edited) .. Edited December 15, 2008 by Guest Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mitchntx1548534714 Posted December 15, 2008 Share Posted December 15, 2008 Forgot my cat pic ... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom Beverly Posted December 15, 2008 Share Posted December 15, 2008 I can tell you it boils down to cost and availability.....go real light, and the rims get very expensive. Uhm, perhaps YOU are missing the point. These wheels are dirt cheap compared to the others available in the same size... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Glenn Posted December 15, 2008 Share Posted December 15, 2008 light wheels = an increase in pefromance. period. so you Ford guys have a cheep 16lb wheel to use and thats great. but do the GM guys have one? the answer is likey no. so there is the reason we set the limit where it is - to level the playing field on a cost vs weight ratio. the goal is to have a cheep wheel availble to all platforms. the goal is to not be required to spend $2K+ on a set of wheels that are 12lbs, 14lbs, 16lbs to keep up w/ Joe Fast As Shit. do the leg work and find a cheep wheel for the GM guys and present your case to the directors. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rustang72 Posted December 15, 2008 Share Posted December 15, 2008 light wheels = an increase in pefromance. period. so you Ford guys have a cheep 16lb wheel to use and thats great. but do the GM guys have one? the answer is likey no. so there is the reason we set the limit where it is - to level the playing field on a cost vs weight ratio.As I pointed out before Adam and Mitch jumped in making personal shots instead of discussing the rules, Enkei also makes light 5x4.75" wheels. Their NT03+M is cheaper than the wheels Tom mention, available in 5x4.5 and 5x4.75, and from what I found weighs between 16 and 18lb for the various sizes we are allowed in CMC and CMC2. So, it's not a "Fords have an advantage" issue. Plus, if you wanted to be fair Foxes would be allowed the same track width as Chevys... except we can't get there without flaring the fenders. Mitch: What button? If you have a personal problem with me send a PM instead of interrupting this discussion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mitchntx1548534714 Posted December 15, 2008 Share Posted December 15, 2008 discussion. LOL ... yer a funny guy. How is anything I (or Adam) said personal? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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