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billpennock

2 Questions about weight

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billpennock

First I'm a big dude, too big I know but after 53 years I know that I'm never gonna be my "right" weight. I'm at 280 right now, I'll probably get a little off but me and the car are 2748 at the track. Sooooo.....first question is anyone got any ideas on how to get big chunks off an already stripped car? I'm gonna start cutting everything I can think of but it's gonna be a lb at a time.

 

Second is, why is it that all racing weights seem to be geared to guys 180 to 200 lbs? Why not make the minimum enough that anyone short of a piano crate size can meet the limit. Baring that how 'bout a rule where for those of us who are gravity challenged we can do extra stuff to get the weight out like poly rear window or light weight hood or something?

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944-Spec#94

Well......

I am 160 lbs and need to ballast my car to make weight...

 

Last time on the scales my car was 2625 as raced with low fuel.

 

That included 40lbs of pure ballast (mounted legally). Racing Pass seat with harness and strong mounting. Both doors with door glass and powerwindow motors. In the engine area I have a stock battery and heater blower motor with an empty heater box with dummy core. (at one time before 944-spec I though id need the core for class rules).

 

So at 2748 your race weight is 150lbs over although 125 is probably a better number since it is nice to have a bit of margin for the scales being off a bit. I however feel that even a 2650 weight is no longer a factor in holding you back.

 

So lets see if we can fine 125 lbs.

 

Eric "The Red" Sorrensen is or resident "big guy" and I believe he got down to weight with his 84 chassis. I believe Eric is in the 230 range. (sorry if I am wrong).

 

So it possible to get down weight and still be bigger. To get an additiona; 125 lbs however may take some time with undercoatings and such.

 

BTW... I am assuming the 2748 is with tank almost empty on gas.

 

 

Oh... I have heard that Jon Milledge says you can get an early 944 chasis to 2300 lbs in ITS trim. Not sure how to do that, but just food for though as ITS has less allowances for removal of stuff than 944 spec. If he is right then 2300 + 300lbs driver = 2600 min weight .

 

 

Last thought... PCA club racing takes car weight out the driver in the car so it would be like saying all spec cars can be a min of 2400 lbs. Then I'd have edge over a lot of guys that they could NEVER make up.

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billpennock

Good to know there is hope. I think gas was a quarter tank or so so theres 20lb's perhaps there. One thing I did was put in a turbo oil cooler and I'm thinking about taking that out again. I hate where it's mounted due to suseptability of damage and enough people aren't running them and are still not burning motors that I'm thinking it's not worth the weight. I've got a right seat although I'm expect that's total under 10lb's but maybe not. Still 10 lb's is 10 lb's.

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Spec-944#70

my car weighs 2625 with me in it and I weigh 220lbs. I have a race passenger seat with belts, custom cage with NASCAR door beams, gutted doors with no glass or anything. No A/C or heater core, converted pwer rack to manual, I still have full dash but no center console and my cockpit undercoating has been removed, gutted the sunroof and it's held on with clips, stock battery, cast headers, no cat just a pipe into a short glass pack, I still have my headlights and motors. I think that's about it. Doors were the big weight savings.

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944-Spec#94
One thing I did was put in a turbo oil cooler and I'm thinking about taking that out again.

 

Don't yank the turbo oil cooler. Weight is minimal compared to extra protecting of cool oil. I have and external turbo oil cooler and won't take it out.

 

 

Oh... couple weight reduction on eric's car.

 

cast iron header replaced with tubular - 5lbs

 

headlight removal - 10-15lbs.

 

light weight battery 20lbs

 

So add it up that comes to 40lbs or so. So that means the drive could come to 260lbs and still race at 2625lbs in eric's car

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billpennock

Header is already tubular

The headlight actuator motor is out but the rest is still in, is the motor the main weight or the headlights and bar, etc. too?

 

I've got a lightweight battery but Tim has an even lighter one I'm thinking of getting.

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p928sfan

One other question that has bounced around quite a bit is What year car do you have. There was a belief (and not just mine, but Chris Cervelli also thought there was some merit to this) that later model cars weighed more than earlier ones. I'm not sure what years exactly this entailed, but....

 

I know my 86 and I (weighing in around 240-250-ish (not wanting to be real exact there haha) ina full suit and helmet) always weighed around 2750-2800 also. And those of you that have seen my car know there's not much else to take out. I have removed lights plus their motor, heater cores, all sounddeadening, dash is a shell, single seat only, etc.....

 

I understand Joe keeps trotting out that he has windows, extra seat, ballast, etc... and he does only weigh around the 160 mark, but still, there's quite a bit of weight unexplained in the whole deal still.

 

That being said, I don't know that its as much of a handicap as one might think. I think I did ok, and Glenn's car was always over 2700 as well and he does ok.

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944-Spec#94

Thanks for the tip Kevin,

I believe Bill has Bob Beck's old car. That was an 84 chassis.

 

Same year as mine and Erics.

 

You are 100% spot on Glenn's weight. He seems to have been and still is 70 to 80lbs over and he is damn fast. I can't catch him unless I am spot perfect.

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billpennock

I'll work the lights etc. I'm pretty sure I can get down to 2700 anyway. Good to hear it's not that much of a handicap but don't tell Mike Foley, I don't want him to know that I couldn't get around him because I couldn't keep the throttle fully depressed going into Riverside

 

Next time.

 

I do have the 84 chassis. There isn't alot left in it but there are a few things. I'll keep trying.

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Tim Comeau

You should save alot with the battery. A stock battery weighs 40-45 lbs. My motorcycle battery weighs 13 lbs with the metal jacket.

The cast headers weigh 20 lbs!

The tubulars weigh about 7 for a savings of 13 lbs!

My glass windows, motors, and regulators weighed 30 lbs. altogether.

 

Bill, you have to look at every aspect of the car to get the weight out. Everything. Are you going to be able to find that extra 100 lbs (280 lb driver minus 180 lb driver)? Don't know. Sorry I didn't get a chance to come look closely at the car for some ideas, but I'll bet you can get creative and go a long ways towards shedding the pounds.

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billpennock

Thanks Tim, Joe thinks I shouldn't loose the turbo oil cooler, what are your thoughts on that?

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Zvoiture

Marks has an oil pan modification that will save you about 10 lbs.

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Tim Comeau

Ouch!, Steve!

Kickin' poor old Jim while he's down............

Bill, I'm with Joe on the oil cooler thing. If you have it, keep it. Look for weight reduction elsewhere.

Here's what I do. Get a bucket and weigh it. Then go through the chassis removing every little thing you can. Extra wiring, studs, brackets, speed nuts, everything. If something is held on with 4 bolts and only needs 2, yank 'em. Are your tar mats removed on the floor?

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billpennock

Alrightly then. I'll keep the oil cooler. The floor is bare so I'm assuming the "tar mats" are gone but I'm not positive I know what those are. I will remove some when I remove the passenger seat of course. I was looking at the car over the weekend and here are certainly places I can shear stuff off. The spare tire mount in the back that is welded in could be cut off for instance. Is a fuel cell heavier or lighter than the stock tank? It seems there is an inordinate amount of "stuff" holding in the cover for the sun roof, can that just be welded or tack welded on legally or does it have to be held with clips? Wireing scares me but I KNOW there is a bunch of it under the dash that doesn't do anything anymore. Actually let me clarify, wireing in general doesn't scare me but the rat's nest under there does concern me a bit. I'm afraid it could become the interminable project.

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944-Spec#94

I would not shave off the spare tire area. Weight savings would be like 5 lbs at most.

 

Plus it is gray area of the rules I'd not want to get into.

 

 

Did you remove all the heat shielding on the firewall behing the engine?

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billpennock

I'm confused, where is the grey area in cutting the mount bracket for the spare tire? I just reviewed the rules and either I'm missing something or there are rules I don't know about like NASA general CCR's or something?

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944-Spec#94

Well since it does not say you can do it.. Well you can't...

 

However there is a line in the rules about ease of maintence.

 

Cutting out the rear tire area could make a clutch job easier.

 

Hence the gray area.

 

The basic intent of rules when it comes to weight is you can remove anything that is bolted down. The excludes things like fenders bumper & hood. You make cut all the extra wires you don't need. Many can be cut without causing any problems. You may also remove glue, tar, and undercoatings of all types.

 

Things you in general may not do are cut out metal (doors are the exception) and replace any panels since this costs money. Ie no lexan for glass or fiberglass for steel. The exception to this are the door glass. Since you may remove them entirely you can certainly put lexan door windows as a replacement.

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billpennock

Hmmm, I'll have to look again. Not sure if I was clear here and we are talking about something by itself so small it's irrelevant but I suppose the rules would apply anywhere. The thing I'm talking about is not the rear tire area but just the 3 or 4 inch mounting brace that has a nut in the end. by itself it wouldn't amount to a lb I would think?

 

thanks for the clarification though,

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Tim Comeau

Confustication!

Bill is talking about just the tire bracket, Joe. Not the whole spare tire well. You can remove that bracket, Bill.

I think your tar mats were still in. You had a passenger seat as well.

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billpennock

Won't be the first time I've been accused of confuscation Ah well Joe's response reminded me about how to read the rule book so the fact of confusion resulted in furthering my knowledge, that's not so bad

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944-spec#09

Bill

Ths sunroof is fiberglass so welding is out. I took off all the underside material and made 4 small aluminum brackets to hold it in. It works really well and is very tight. If I get a chance I will take and post a picture of them. Also if you have an early car you can replace the starter with the later model one which is about 8-10 lb lighter.

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billpennock

That's huge on the starter. When did they start putting the lighter one in? I have another 84 that is a parts car that is later production. The evidence of that is it had an aluminum radiator rather than the one with the plastic tanks. Is there a chance it might have that lighter starter?

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Tim Comeau

The smaller starters are really obvious visually. All the radiators have plastic side tanks. The earlier radiators are painted black and the later ones are aluminum "colored."

Bill, we saw the need for those sunroof brackets and actually had a bunch of them made. I can email you pics if you want.

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billpennock

Aluminum colored? Wow the power of suggestion, someone told me to look for an aluminum later model radiator when my old one busted and I saw this and even handling and everything I just took it for aluminum, good paint

 

I'd love pic's of the brackets, I can compare to how my sunroof is put in. I don't know enough about it but it looks like there's alot of parts that are left over from the standard sunroof. There's a white plastic piece at the back that has some metal tubing snaked through it kinda and a bunch of just extra stuff. In my "winter" stuff I'm going to pull it out and try to get as much of that out of there as possible while still holding it in firmly.

 

Can't weld glass huh? Just kidding, how 'bout JB weld? kidding again

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Tim Comeau

I'll launch you some pics of the brackets. Pag actually fiberglassed in his sunroof. Looks like a non-sunroof car now.

I had side by side pics of the 2 radiators, but can't find them on my computer now!

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