Glenn Posted June 18, 2009 Share Posted June 18, 2009 those very used RA1's are slow. this weekend i went from the mid to high 30's at Hallett on RA1's i stopped using due to age over a year ago, to the remainder of the full treads i bought in 2006 Nats for rains that i burned off at the TWS 8hr enduro. that tire change alone netted me a 2 second drop. so to say, the old RA1's are a fast as the slightly used R888 tells me there is 2 seconds between the tires when they are of equal condition. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sidney Posted June 18, 2009 Share Posted June 18, 2009 On Saturday I ran "Thin to Win" RA1's - 32 psi starting pressure Race 1 1:34.023 8th place Race 2 1:33.076 5th place Sunday I ran nearly new (one dry race & 2 wet races) R888's - 40 psi Race 1 1:33.906 8th place Race 2 1:33.155 5th place No changes to setup between events. Camber was reduced before the season expecting to run R888's all year. New track to me. It's expected I would have been faster after a few sessions. No unusual wear patterns on R888's. No drop off in performance throughout the race. Last lap was within .4 seconds of fast lap. Sidney Franklin CMC #64 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mitchntx1548534714 Posted June 18, 2009 Share Posted June 18, 2009 LOL ... Steve and I were just discussing his performance on 888s. His lap times actually got faster as the race went on ... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mitchntx1548534714 Posted June 18, 2009 Share Posted June 18, 2009 On Saturday I ran "Thin to Win" RA1's - 32 psi starting pressure Sidney Franklin CMC #64 That is your COLD pressure? That's more than my HOT pressures ... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sidney Posted June 18, 2009 Share Posted June 18, 2009 Yep...starting psi. Sidney Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Al F. Posted June 18, 2009 Members Share Posted June 18, 2009 Sidney, that is about the highest cold pressure I've seen...for 8s or ra1s. Have you measured it hot? Your results would indicate a slower tire to me. All other things being equal the 2nd day times are faster due to the driver getting more comfortable and improving their lines. I ran a best of 1:32.1 on saturday and a best of 1:30.9 on sunday with zero changes to the car and in spite of a quickly detereorating right rear tire. BUT, that said, I dont think looking at one lap is very relevant anyway, especially from different years Adam. Me personally, I fully agree with Toyo that the 888 is capable of more grip than the RA1. Those tires feel awesome for the first two laps. My beef is they fall off faster than the RA1, they wear faster than the RA1, and they require less slip angle than the RA1. This is ammateur racing, and sliding is fun. If I have to baby my tires all day, it aint as fun as chasing the rear end around a corner. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sidney Posted June 18, 2009 Share Posted June 18, 2009 Al, I think it's very possible the R888 is slower. I don't really care as long as we're all on the same tire. My bigger concern is tire life and so far no issues with me. Regarding pressures: I don't slide my car around and up here (Midwest) we probably don't see the same track temps that you see in Texas. I probably should have started lower on Saturday as I felt my car was pushing half way through the race. Since I was seeing water temps at 250 I backed off anyway! I didn't feel I had any issues with a push on Sunday or other tire issues. My very last lap on Sunday was .5 seconds slower than my fastest lap on Saturday. Should I be running different pressures? Maybe...but I instruct and usually running from my car to a students car. I'm usually lucky to get gas in it before the next session. (Obviously no excuse for Hallett.) Bob, Bryan, and I all have very, very similar setups...ie, same springs, sway bars, & shocks. Our weights are close due to rules. We compare notes and adjust accordingly. Bob's quick and also very fast on a new track. He too ran RA1's on Saturday and R888's on Sunday. Looking at Bob's lap times he was about a second slower on Sunday. Sidney Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Glenn Posted June 18, 2009 Share Posted June 18, 2009 my cold RA1 pressures are 25.... or so. i think most guys running R888's are using 28-32 cold. this is w/ air and not nitrogen. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CMC#11 Posted June 18, 2009 Share Posted June 18, 2009 I ran RA1's the entire event and had a best time of 1:29.0 curing qual. and had quite a few laps in the high 1:29's. I tested the 888's at a local track last month and tried various pressures (no camber changes) and was not impressed. I did run the 888's at Hallett during a Fun race at the end of Saturday and had a best time of 1:30.3. I was actually very suprised I ran a time that fast. I bought my tires shaved to 4/32's and have put a total of 4 sessions on them. The wear is not as good as I had expected. My thoughts now are that if I get another set of 888's in the future I will NOT shave them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AllZWay Posted June 19, 2009 Share Posted June 19, 2009 It is almost impossible for me to compare times on my RA1's on Saturday to my 888's on Sunday or to RA1's last year. Fastest lap on RA1's for the weekend.. 129.424...during qualifying Fastest lap on 888's for the weekend.... 129.450...during race and lots of traffic. My gut is still telling me that the 888 is an inferior tire to the RA1 in overall grip, feel and longevity, but I don't have the data to back up that claim. I do think the 888 can still be raceable tire. The problem I see or at least my biggest rub, is that we are not all on the same tire and I would like to see a clear direction for next year. Pick a tire...any tire...let's just standardize on it ONCE and be done with that decision for a few years. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TxCMC22 Posted June 19, 2009 Share Posted June 19, 2009 I am rethinking my first impressions of the R666 I mean R888.... They actually felt awesome this weekend... I will have to play around more with what I learned at Hallet as I didn't get to test them during race situations much... but I will continue to run them this year... I would rather have the RA1 around, but if we don't get a choice, I know what I need to do with the 888 to make them work... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nasa-rm Posted June 19, 2009 Author Share Posted June 19, 2009 I know the difference that I felt. I was running DFL 1:35s all day Saturday. I couldn't get off the corners and was getting eaten up 1/2 way down the straight. Didn't use 4th gear on the straight. Very frustrating. Switched tires to my comfortable setup on Sunday, dialed camber back in and started running 31's. I'm still convinced that the 888s can be fast, just not for our style of driving or cars. AI/CMC is not and never will be a finesse class. If I wanted that I'd drive a Formula Ford. I am glad to see that Toyo "found" the RA1 molds (as predicted) and are bringing the 205/50/15 back for SCCA Miatas next season.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Al F. Posted June 19, 2009 Members Share Posted June 19, 2009 I am glad to see that Toyo "found" the RA1 molds (as predicted) and are bringing the 205/50/15 back for SCCA Miatas next season.... Really?? Source? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lady in Nomex Posted June 19, 2009 Share Posted June 19, 2009 I am glad to see that Toyo "found" the RA1 molds (as predicted) and are bringing the 205/50/15 back for SCCA Miatas next season.... Really?? Source? Aren't they a bit bigger than two guys playing with rubber in their backyard shop? You'd think making more molds would not be a problem...... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GT4Point6 Posted June 20, 2009 Share Posted June 20, 2009 I am glad to see that Toyo "found" the RA1 molds (as predicted) and are bringing the 205/50/15 back for SCCA Miatas next season.... Really?? Source? Aren't they a bit bigger than two guys playing with rubber in their backyard shop? You'd think making more molds would not be a problem...... In the pits after a case or so... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Den341548534727 Posted June 20, 2009 Share Posted June 20, 2009 First off, I would like to tell everyone what a great event it was at Hallet this past weekend. I was most impressed with the hospitality of the Texas and Rocky Mountain folks. With hospitality like that it is no wonder your groups are growing. I would start naming of names of people to thank but as i think about it everyone was great!! I will be there next year!! As for the tires this is just my opinion, It seems like the tires do not like to be loaded quickly. Whether hard sudden breaking or pitching the car in the corner. They seem to like very smooth imputs. It felt like I could not dive in and out brake people without locking up the tires. But if I layed into the breaks a little slower they where ok. Also the 88s don't speak to you. They lock up before you have time to react or hear the tire. I felt faster and more confident on the RA1s. This may be why I was about a half to a second slower on Sunday. I dont care if they are faster or slower, I am a cheap bastard so I would like to see them last as long as the RA1s, but if the 88s are the tire then so be it. Just make a choice. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nasa-rm Posted June 20, 2009 Author Share Posted June 20, 2009 I am glad to see that Toyo "found" the RA1 molds (as predicted) and are bringing the 205/50/15 back for SCCA Miatas next season.... Really?? Source? Straight from the horses mouth... http://www.scca.com/newsarticle.aspx?hub=1&news=3661 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Al F. Posted June 22, 2009 Members Share Posted June 22, 2009 Very interesting and timely. Thanks Dave Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
liebbe1548534713 Posted June 22, 2009 Share Posted June 22, 2009 Who do we need to petition or annoy to make this happen for us? Let's be proactive or it won't happen. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nasa-rm Posted June 22, 2009 Author Share Posted June 22, 2009 Who do we need to petition or annoy to make this happen for us? Let's be proactive or it won't happen. No need to annoy anyone. I am sure this was all part of the big discussions last week between Toyo and NASA. Now we just need to sit tight and wait to hear the outcome of those talks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
liebbe1548534713 Posted June 22, 2009 Share Posted June 22, 2009 I'm not sure about the sit back quietly route. I don't think that Toyo would voluntarily change back unless they were persuaded. I just want to know if anybody is "persuading" on behalf of AI/CMC and if not, then how do we start. A decision to go back needs to happen very soon to meet timing for first of next year if the production pipeline is to be filled all the way from Japan. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CMC#11 Posted August 18, 2009 Share Posted August 18, 2009 The event was 2 months ago but I finally got around to editing my in-car footage from the 4 races. Big thanks again to the all the out-of-region cars that came and made the event a blast!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sidney Posted September 18, 2009 Share Posted September 18, 2009 Dave & Al, How high is a 2010 repeat of the Hallett event on your priorities? CMC & AI numbers are high and can be even higher if promoted harder. No reason this can't be an event like the June Sprints in terms of popularity and accomplishment. Had a great time in 2009 and hoping it makes the schedule in 2010, Sidney Franklin CMC #64 Midwest Region Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Waco Racer Posted September 18, 2009 Share Posted September 18, 2009 June 12-13 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FBody383 Posted September 18, 2009 Share Posted September 18, 2009 How high is a 2010 repeat of the Hallett event on your priorities? I hope they say "real high;" it was my first time there and this rookie had a blast. Al, tell 'em we want it to be the NASA Summer Spectacular. Surely we can get some fireworks put up out there. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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