S197 CMC2 Prep

[larry klamecki]

We recently finished our 2006 Mustang and have run it two weekends. We're slow, but it's the driver, not the car.

 

Anyway, I'm wondering if there are other S197 guys out there who might want to exchange information, etc. Might be helpful to share knowledge (and tweeks).

 

I'll start the ball rolling with weight: we're 3420 obs. post race with 9 gal of fuel onboard. Driver is about 240 lbs. Car is gutted to the rules with a cage copied from the Ford factory's Mustang Challenge cars and passed annual inspection without a problem. On the dyno, we're 266HP and 278 Ft. Lbs. Running R888's at about 33 lbs. cold; 3 degrees negative camber in the front (maybe too much) and about .4 degree in the rear.

 

Like to hear from you guys.

Larry

[Al F.]

When you say its gutted to the rules, can you be more specific? Did you cut/grind all brackets down? Have you removed the trunk/hood latch mechanisms and backing plates and replaced with Al pins? Have you removed the ABS system and replumbed the brakes? Did you remove all underhood components? Did you remove the dash to gut underneath? What about wiring, did you pull all the wiring and return only those wires necessary to run the motor? lol I know but I'm just trying to get a feeling for where you are. I've seen some gutted cars and then I've seen some gutted cars!

[KiMifan]

If you did not tear the car down to a bare shell, strip all insulation, remove EVERY SINGLE PART that could be unbolted or legally cut off, and then reassemble the car using only the bare minimum of parts needed to make it run and pass inspection, you did not "gut the car to the rules."

[larry klamecki]

Thank you guys for the replies. In terms of weight savings, here's what we've done:

Unbolted all unnecessary brackets; didn't cut anything off, even if unused

Removed hood latch assembly, replaced with hood pins

Retained stock hood hinges

Retained trunk lid hinges and lock assembly except keylock which we removed and replaced with a cable for access

Removed entire ABS system, replumbed brake lines, added bias adj.

Removed AC compressor and entire heater assembly

Relocated battery

Removed all unnecessary wiring

Removed all heat and sound insulation including all seam sealer

Gutted doors, retaining door latches

DID NOT GUT BENEATH DASH COVER AND FACIA

Removed all airbags

Removed wiper motor and assembly

 

I understand the rules to say that you can unbolt unneeded brackets but not cut them off. I am unclear about gutting the underlying dash structure.

 

Your advice is much appreciated.

[doc stang]

Have you removed the trunk/hood latch mechanisms and backing plates and replaced with Al pins?

would using a "lift-off only" hood which i presume would be lighter) be allowed, so long as it's exteror appearance conformed to OEM specs?

 

We recently finished our 2006 Mustang and have run it two weekends.

pics would be nice,

[MHISSTC]

would using a "lift-off only" hood which i presume would be lighter) be allowed, so long as it's exteror appearance conformed to OEM specs?

 

Are you talking about using the OEM hood as a lift-off hood, or a lighter composite type aftermarket hood?

 

Lighter aftermarket composite hoods are not legal.

 

A stock hood attached with a minimum of 4 aluminum hood pins is legal and is presumed to be lighter than the stock hood with all of the stock mounting hardware and latching mechanisms in place.

 

Be very careful on how you attach those minimum of 4 hood pins. I've seen a few less than adequate attachments come loose at speed on the straights. The hoods have either flipped up and bashed in windshields or they've come completely off and flew 30+ feet up in the air. Luckily, the hoods I've seen come completely loose didn't hit anyone else. It's also very important to actually remember to put the hood pins back in before heading out on track for the same reasons listed above. I've never seen a factory mounting and latching system fail.

 

pics would be nice,

 

YUP.

[Al F.]

Under the hood you are only allowed to unbolt things, but in the passenger compartment and trunk you can cut/drill/grind bracketry down. That will add up.

 

From a wiring perspective, I know GM cars come with about 40lbs of unnecessary wiring under the dash and hood. I would assume Fords to be the same.

 

What about other aspects...suspension and brakes, what have you done regarding bushings, arms, springs and shocks?

[larry klamecki]

I appreciate all the replies. I'm out of town this week, but I'll post photos by next weekend.

 

Suspension: Front - single adjustable Koni's with coilover conversion, 500 lb. springs (Mustang Challenge spec.), stock sway bar, all bushings repaced with poly, sway bar links from Maximum Motorsports, Ground Control castor/camber plates, Ford Racing upper stress bar and lower bar between control arms. Rear - tubular trailing arms and Steeda upper link, stock sway bar, all bushings replaced with poly, tubular track bar, 250 lb. springs (Again, Mustang Challenge spec.).

[MHISSTC]

Coilover Conversion?

[KiMifan]

What's the shock about? S197s come stock with coilover struts. He's just talking about the kit to mount them to the aftermarket struts, which is perfectly legal. No different than a 4th Gen GM.

[MHISSTC]

This boils down to a correct use of terminology so we can understand what parts are being used and what parts are legal for use.

 

The mention of a "coilover conversion" implies the stock true MacPherson type struts were replaced with a strut of a design that would allow for ride height adjustment...which I don't believe is part of the original S197 design. Coilover struts could be considered a subset of the standard MacPherson strut design since both have the strut and spring on a common axis. The modified MacPherson strut design found on the '79-'04 Mustangs is, of course, quite different than the true MacPherson strut type design since the spring and strut are not a common axis.

 

The Koni Sport (yellow) single adjustable struts for the S197s are perfectly legal as replacement struts. Koni also makes other struts that I don't believe would be considered legal due to the adjustable ride height design and price (2800 Series Race). I would consider those to be a true "coilover conversion".

 

Do the "500 lb. springs (Mustang Challenge spec.)" require a special kit to mount them in a Koni Sport (yellow) strut? Is this a statement that indicates they are the same exact spring as used in the FR500S, or merely that both springs have 500lb/in spring rates?

 

Again, it boils down to using the correct terminology.

[KiMifan]

8.8.1 Late model Ford (2005+) cars may use a threaded collar and adjustable spring seat assembly for the front suspension, but the distance between the bottom of the threaded collar around the shock to the bottom of the spring seat must be the same on both front assemblies at all times within a 1/8†tolerance. Spring spacers/shims may be used. The spacers may NOT allow adjustment of the installed height of the spring without spring removal.

 

Additionally, any spring is legal provided it is mounted in the stock location, which in this case is around the strut body, same as the FR500S.

[MHISSTC]

Huh...

That's very interesting.

 

Sooo...as long as the collar to spring seat distances are within an 1/8" side-to-side, one can use a "coilover"...er..."threaded collar and adjustable spring seat assembly" in the front along with any spring and spacers/shims of choice on an S197. But, if spacers/shims are used, they cannont allow adjustment of the installed height of the spring without spring removal. Can't you already adjust the installed height of the spring without spring removal if you are using a "threaded collar and adjustable spring seat assembly"?

 

Am I correct in presuming the spacers/shims are used to take care of the side-to side spring height changes, while the threaded collars are used to take care of the overall front end ride height in this setup?

 

Can you tell I'm looking at this from a '79-'04 Mustang bias?

[Al F.]

The s197 front shock/spring layout is similar to the 4th gen. We normalize them to the rest of the field by not allowing them to use their coilovers for corner weighing purposes.

[MHISSTC]

The s197 front shock/spring layout is similar to the 4th gen. We normalize them to the rest of the field by not allowing them to use their coilovers for corner weighing purposes.

 

Thank you for the consise explanation. It makes more sense to me now...and makes me want to build an S197 even more.

[nasa-rm]

...and makes me want to build an S197 even more.

 

Is there anything that'll get your first car done!!!!???

[MHISSTC]

...and makes me want to build an S197 even more.

 

Is there anything that'll get your first car done!!!!???

 

I already built my first car...TWICE! It's called The Pumpkin.

Oh...you mean MY car.

Yes! When I can quit working on The Pumpkin, I can put mine together. I've got all the parts, now it's down to being one big puzzle that I have to put together into the form of a CMC car. It's called CMC in a box(s). You can ask Brad about it. Misplaced a part for The Pumpkin? No problem, just rob a part out of my stash and replace it with the one from The Pumpkin when you clean up and find it later. I hope I can get it together before the harnesses expire.