2011, one series or two?

[GT4Point6]

Since I'll probably be out most of the year this year due to crappy economy and no long term job, and have toyo bucks to spend, what is the future of CMC in 2011?

CMC1 and CMC2? or just CMC

 

I don't want to use up my toyo buck on 16's if it will end up on series with 17's next year.

 

I don't want to upgrade tires, brakes, rims, power, to CMC2 levels to find out that CMC1 is still in play for 2011.

 

My preference, $$$ wise, is to stay in CMC1 for 2011.

 

So directors, what is the 2011 future of CMC?

[Glenn]

There is not a defined "merger" date. The goal is to have one class. CMC will not go away until all the cars have moved up. Once that happens CMC will go away and CMC-2 will then just be CMC. This will happen on a regional level until all regions are back to one class.

If you feel you need to have the wheels and brakes before you run CMC-2, your just plain wrong. I ran much faster on my 16's Sunday of this past weekend than I did on my 17's on Saturday. I run the CMC spec brakes and I was braking way deeper than the other cars in CMC-2, including some who were on 17's and had 4 piston brakes.

 

Point is, if you need to spend the bucks and you already have 17" wheels, get the 17" rubber and go CMC-2. If you have 16" wheels, get 16" rubber and go CMC-2.

[Al F.]

Exactly. While directionally we want to have one class (which will be using the current CMC-2 specs) there is no time frame for current CMC-1 to go away. Since everyone gets to decide on their own, some regions are moving the CMC-2 route faster than others.

 

I know here in Texas I was very surprised this year to see us having a majority of CMC-2 cars since last year it was probably more like 60/40 CMC1/2.

 

James, please comment on tires since you switched this weekend to 17" wheels. Myself, I made the change last year but I would race on either without a second thought. They just dont make enough of a difference for my butt-o-meter to register an advantage either way. Ditto on the calipers.

 

Kevin...to answer your question directly: the best move for you IMHO is actually to sell your toyo bucks to someone that needs tires now. No reason to spend money on something thats just going to sit in the garage taking up space.

[AllZWay]

I ran on 17's for the first time this weekend. I couldn't tell any significant butt-o-meter differences and times were roughly the same if not slightly slower this year than last year on 16's.

 

I actually thought brakes were slightly better with 17's....less lock up....but I am also running different rear pads that have to be factored into that difference.

[TurboShortBus]

To all,

 

You stated that you switched between 16" and 17" wheels recently, with very little discernible difference in performance. However, you did not state which tires you were using.

 

Were you switching between:

1. CMC-spec 255/50-16 RA1s and nothing-spec 255mm x 17" RA1s (presumably 255/40-17)

or

2. CMC-spec 255/50-16 RA1s and CMC-2 spec 275/40-17 RA1s?

 

It seems to me that there would be very little discernible difference between 16" and 17" wheels while keeping the 255mm tire width constant, but I would think you would feel a difference between 16" x 255mm and 17" x 275mm, more than likely from the increased tire width and not necessarily from the wheel diameter.

 

Mark

[mitchntx1548534714]

2. CMC-spec 255/50-16 RA1s and CMC-2 spec 275/40-17 RA1s?

 

I too found very little difference when going from 255/16s to 275/17s.

 

Best I can tell, the 30hp increase was off-set by the increase in unsprung weight.

 

There is about 1/4" -3/8" difference in useable tread-width between a shaved 255/50/16 and 275/40/17.

[TurboShortBus]

I too found very little difference when going from 255/16s to 275/17s.

 

Best I can tell, the 30hp increase was off-set by the increase in unsprung weight.

So, this change in tire size was accompanied by a 30 hp increase? This isn't quite the apples to apples comparison that I was hoping for.

 

Mark

[Glenn]

To all,

 

You stated that you switched between 16" and 17" wheels recently, with very little discernible difference in performance. However, you did not state which tires you were using.

 

Were you switching between:

1. CMC-spec 255/50-16 RA1s and nothing-spec 255mm x 17" RA1s (presumably 255/40-17)

or

2. CMC-spec 255/50-16 RA1s and CMC-2 spec 275/40-17 RA1s?

 

It seems to me that there would be very little discernible difference between 16" and 17" wheels while keeping the 255mm tire width constant, but I would think you would feel a difference between 16" x 255mm and 17" x 275mm, more than likely from the increased tire width and not necessarily from the wheel diameter.

 

Mark

 

#2.

as for the HP.....

I upped the power the same day I put the 275's on, as did Mitch. But James ran w/ the extra 30 HP all last year and just switched to the 275's. The track we ran at this past weekend (me and James) is 100% a non-HP track. I really think there is so many limiting factors w/ a CMC car, that 255/16's are just not that differnt from 275/17's w/ regards to performance. My 275's were used '06 date code tires i got for free. My 255's were left over Nationals Tires w/ a '07 date code. I now want to try a new set or 17's.

[TurboShortBus]

I really think there is so many limiting factors w/ a CMC car, that 255/16's are just not that differnt from 275/17's w/ regards to performance.

Where do you think the performance of 255/40-17 RA1s would fall between those two sizes on a CMC car?

 

Mark

[Glenn]

right where we wanted it to. I still think we should limit it to that size as its perfect for a 9" wheel.

[TurboShortBus]

right where we wanted it to. I still think we should limit it to that size as its perfect for a 9" wheel.

Strictly for CMC-2?

 

Mark

[mitchntx1548534714]

I too found very little difference when going from 255/16s to 275/17s.

 

Best I can tell, the 30hp increase was off-set by the increase in unsprung weight.

So, this change in tire size was accompanied by a 30 hp increase? This isn't quite the apples to apples comparison that I was hoping for.

 

Mark

 

:confused:

 

Why would you go to CMC2 to use 17s and yet NOT go to CMC power levels. Makes no sense ...

[TurboShortBus]

:confused:

 

Why would you go to CMC2 to use 17s and yet NOT go to CMC power levels. Makes no sense ...

A couple of posts near the top mentioned switching between 16" and 17" wheels, yet there was no mention of changes in power or tire widths. I'm just trying to figure out what was taking place and what the variables were.

 

I'm mostly curious about the difference in performance between a 16" wheel and a 17" wheel if the tire compound, tire width, and engine power remain the same.

 

Mark

[Tri-Agan]

I agree with most of the comments, I didn't see any difference in times between the two sizes for the first 30 minutes of a race...........but after 30 minutes the smaller tire would lose grip. My "guess" is that the smaller tire was at least 1-2 seconds slower after 30 minutes of racing than the bigger size. (255's vs 275's)

 

If you don't have 40+ races like we do, it really wouldn't matter which tire you used, but in a 40+ minute race, I want the bigger tire.

 

Kent

[mitchntx1548534714]

:confused:

 

Why would you go to CMC2 to use 17s and yet NOT go to CMC power levels. Makes no sense ...

A couple of posts near the top mentioned switching between 16" and 17" wheels, yet there was no mention of changes in power or tire widths. I'm just trying to figure out what was taking place and what the variables were.

 

I'm mostly curious about the difference in performance between a 16" wheel and a 17" wheel if the tire compound, tire width, and engine power remain the same.

 

Mark

 

The OP was asking one series or two .... CMC and CMC2 or the new CMC which would be the current CMC2 power numbers.

 

James is the only person I know of who went from new 255/16s to new 275/17s without a change in power levels.

 

And like everyone else, regardless of changing power numbers, he saw no appreciable change in lap times.

[AllZWay]

I ran all last year in CMC2 on 16's....this year I race the first weekend on 16's, then switched this past weekend to the 275/40/17's .

 

Really difficult to put numbers to a difference, but my butt-o-meter isn't registering much difference so far.

 

That said.... I really like the look of the 17's.

[TurboShortBus]

Thank you for the clarification, James!

 

Mark

[GT4Point6]

The OP was asking one series or two .... CMC and CMC2 or the new CMC which would be the current CMC2 power numbers.

 

Yup, not debating 16 vs. 17 but some good info on the subject none the less from those who have.

 

I'll consider two things, going 16's for my Toyo $$$ or selling them. Julie is first on the block if I sell. If I sell them now, that will be more $$$ down the road to put out for new horseshoes on the pony, pros and cons...

 

Lots of good feedback and some very good points, Thanks all!

Weighing options, etc for this year… Man I hate not racing…

[mcmmotorsports1548534724]

While there is the obvious investment in wheels, it is interesting to see only a $1.00 difference in tires between the 255/50-16 and 275/40-17.

This should make the transition/decision a little easier for those contemplating the switch or entrance into the series.

[RichV]

I know last time it was a shit storm, but we have a lot more CMC2 cars now. And more folks that have embraced the concept. I think that as a region of racers, if there is no need to CMC2 then 1 it will stay. $ being spent on mods that could be 2 legal are just being spent on 1 stuff. I think that a drop dead date needs to be in the works.

 

If that drop dead date was tomorrow, on a regional basis, people would still be slow to upgrade. Until someone rolls up in a built 2 car and starts winning. Now, even if that happens they are in another class so why should I make the leap?

[Glenn]

I know last time it was a shit storm, but we have a lot more CMC2 cars now. And more folks that have embraced the concept. I think that as a region of racers, if there is no need to CMC2 then 1 it will stay. $ being spent on mods that could be 2 legal are just being spent on 1 stuff. I think that a drop dead date needs to be in the works.

 

If that drop dead date was tomorrow, on a regional basis, people would still be slow to upgrade. Until someone rolls up in a built 2 car and starts winning. Now, even if that happens they are in another class so why should I make the leap?

 

There was a drop dead date. Folks didnt like that at all.

Here in Tx, this will likely be the last year of CMC. Possibly a couple hold outs, but not many at all.

[RichV]

I know. TX was some of the loudest on that thread. Now you guys are gonna be the first exclusive. The RM CMC boys will be racing each other in 2011 Hallett.

[Glenn]

Accually, I think Cali is leading this race.

[Sidney]

I'm throwing Midwest/Great Lakes in to the CMC2 leaders. I believe most of the new cars are being built to CMC2 and the (4) Midwest CMC1 regulars will all be CMC2 by our next race.

 

Sidney Franklin

CMC #64 (Headers going on tonight!)

[jrod]

So if I'm shopping for/building a CMC1 car for Texas 2011, I should reconsider my decision? I thought there were eight or more Uno cars this year...