2011, one series or two?

[Houstonnw]

So if I'm shopping for/building a CMC1 car for Texas 2011, I should reconsider my decision? I thought there were eight or more Uno cars this year...

 

Here are the race 1 results from Cresson earlier this year:

 

http://www.mylaps.com/results/showrun.jsp?id=1421485&perclass=1

 

It looks like 11 CMC2 cars and 3 CMC cars.

 

We'll have the TWS numbers after this weekend.

 

-Wayne

-CMC2 #85 (if I don't screw up the check ride)

[92MNstanger]

I'm throwing Midwest/Great Lakes in to the CMC2 leaders. I believe most of the new cars are being built to CMC2 and the (4) Midwest CMC1 regulars will all be CMC2 by our next race.

 

Sidney Franklin

CMC #64 (Headers going on tonight!)

 

You coming up to BIR with Kent?

[Sidney]

Steve,

 

I would like to but that's the weekend after Putnum and my budget won't allow it! I'm glad it got added but kind of wish we would either add a race to the schedule and fit it in properly or not add them at all. If it was in July instead of the Autobahn, your group would have come down to Putnum and our group would have towed up to Brainerd.

 

Has Bob, Kent, or Bryan told you we'll all be at Hallett instead of Blackhawk?

 

Sidney

 

p.s. Keeping with the theme of this thread...my headers and roller rockers are going on tonight.

[powerslide91]

So if I'm shopping for/building a CMC1 car for Texas 2011, I should reconsider my decision? I thought there were eight or more Uno cars this year...

 

Well, I don't think you need to reconsider per say, but I would at minimum keep the transition in mind. Seems like all CMC cars have some sort of path to the Duece. So knowing the costs with making the transition if you choose to do so will help. Maybe it plays a roll in car selection; for example in the GM camp seems like a LT1 car is hard to beat. Choke it and run 16s in CMC or open it up and add 17s and good to go in CMC2....

 

I'm still running CMC this year and the only real reason I am considering making the switch is I want to be where the most people are. Looks like the winds are changing and the larger fields will be in CMC2. So I'm looking at a path to go play there.

 

I think MSR-C was not typical, and I'm thinking the car counts will be a bit closer for some of our other events this year. But we shall see.

[Tri-Agan]

I suggest getting the CMC2 power before you run a CMC car in CMC2.....especially if you have a lot of cars in your region. It's not that much different than mixing AI cars with CMC.

 

For now, my brother-in-law and I are splitting a car. On Saturday we were on the outside pole of CMC2 in our CMC car. (11 inch brakes, 16/255-888 tires, and 227 HP) Before we even got to turn one we went from 2nd to 5th.

 

On Sunday we qualified 3rd. While we were faster overall than the rest of the CMC2 field, we didn't have the power for a rolling start so we asked for a few bumps down to turn one.

 

Video #1 is the in-car shot

Video #2 is from one of the other CMC2 cars.

 

Kent

 

http://vimeo.com/11031394

http://vimeo.com/11065893

[Glenn]

So if I'm shopping for/building a CMC1 car for Texas 2011, I should reconsider my decision? I thought there were eight or more Uno cars this year...

There have been 8 folks who collected CMC points this year. I'll be added to that list this weekend. But next year is the year I expect a big swing.

[ShadowBolt]

I suggest getting the CMC2 power before you run a CMC car in CMC2.....especially if you have a lot of cars in your region. It's not that much different than mixing AI cars with CMC.

 

For now, my brother-in-law and I are splitting a car. On Saturday we were on the outside pole of CMC2 in our CMC car. (11 inch brakes, 16/255-888 tires, and 227 HP) Before we even got to turn one we went from 2nd to 5th.

 

On Sunday we qualified 3rd. While we were faster overall than the rest of the CMC2 field, we didn't have the power for a rolling start so we asked for a few bumps down to turn one.

 

Video #1 is the in-car shot

Video #2 is from one of the other CMC2 cars.

 

Kent

 

http://vimeo.com/11031394

http://vimeo.com/11065893

 

 

From what I see it looks like a missed shift was the reason not the mixture of CMC and CMC2 cars.

 

JJ

[jrod]

Hmmm. Mustangs appear to have the easier route to 2; GT40s, E303, Cobra intake, go. Right? This works for me since I'm biased that direction already. I've been drooling over Kent's fox car(s) and Kurt's '04 BIW 5.0 over the last couple weeks. Both CMC1 spec E7 motors, well put together, and fairly priced. I'm figuring the 260hp will come at around $1k and a weekend of wrenching. Seeing that I don't even have a comp license yet, maybe I should cool the jets a bit and just put my stupid street car back together. Decisions, decisions....

[stevemichael]

Hmmm. Mustangs appear to have the easier route to 2; GT40s, E303, Cobra intake, go. Right? This works for me since I'm biased that direction already. I've been drooling over Kent's fox car(s) and Kurt's '04 BIW 5.0 over the last couple weeks. Both CMC1 spec E7 motors, well put together, and fairly priced. I'm figuring the 260hp will come at around $1k and a weekend of wrenching. Seeing that I don't even have a comp license yet, maybe I should cool the jets a bit and just put my stupid street car back together. Decisions, decisions....

 

I don't know about that. LT1 cars swap/remove a plate and they are there.

[Tri-Agan]

 

 

From what I see it looks like a missed shift was the reason not the mixture of CMC and CMC2 cars.

 

JJ

 

Actually, you're right to a point. The first bump was harder than the driver wanted to do, and it happened right when the other car was shifting from 2nd to 3rd, and it put air under the rear tires. Instead of going into 3rd, the car went into 1st gear. Then, right as he was letting out the clutch in 1st gear, he got the second bump. It was a mess all the way around. The driver that gave the bumps, did them perfectly clean, it was just bad timing. I was watching from the tower right above where it happened and everyone there thought it was a punt, until we had a chance to talk through everything afterward and realized that the lead car was dead in the water on the 2nd bump.

 

If our car wasn't 40 HP down, we wouldn't have needed the bump to prevent us from losing a bunch of positions. It's out own fault for still expecting to run out front without the car to do it in.

 

My point is this. I've seen it many times and I am sure I will get the usual group of people shooting down what I am going to say...... but I would suggest to new drivers to build their cars to the absolute max that they can afford. Eventually, a new driver will come to a point where their success is limited by their equipment, and they will start pushing the equipment to 10 10ths to get the lap times......at that point it's just a matter of time until they make a very small misjudgment and ball up the car.....and they will take someone with them....in a sense, it's no different than what we did this past weekend.

 

 

Kent

[stevemichael]

Having run the mixture last weekend. I saw no issues. That first video is pretty condemning of its driver for fault. It looked like there were multiple attempts to get that car in gear but none were successful. An AI car would have suffered the same fate. Missing a 2 to 3 and then finally putting it in 1st, then blaming a 40 hp difference is insane. Sorry for the two torn up cars, but come on...

 

Steve - not part of the usual group.

[Tri-Agan]

Having run the mixture last weekend. I saw no issues. That first video is pretty condemning of its driver for fault. It looked like there were multiple attempts to get that car in gear but none were successful. An AI car would have suffered the same fate. Missing a 2 to 3 and then finally putting it in 1st, then blaming a 40 hp difference is insane. Sorry for the two torn up cars, but come on...

 

Steve - not part of the usual group.

 

You can argue what you want, I don't agree. If there wasn't the bumping, the issue wouldn't have happened. We asked for the bump ahead of time, so we knew it was coming.

Yes the car went into first, but as a result of the timing of the bump. One big bump at the time of the shift and one at the release of the clutch.

 

It's common sense that there is a higher probability of an issue by having a much slower car in the midst of 12 others that are 40+hp faster. This is racing, not a bike trail.

[Glenn]

Is it just me, or does anyone else have issue w/ planned contact?

wow.....

[Glenn]

I just watch the vid.

Are you F'ing kidding me?

Please Kent, NEVER EVER EVER talk smack about Texas and the contact we seem to have. You guys are SOOOOOOO lucky the outcome was only as bad as it was.

[Glenn]

Off to get the popcorn my ass...... I just bought Orville Redenbacher.

[liebbe1548534713]

I just watch the vid.

Are you F'ing kidding me?

Please Kent, NEVER EVER EVER talk smack about Texas and the contact we seem to have. You guys are SOOOOOOO lucky the outcome was only as bad as it was.

 

Having watched the videos, I completely agree with Glenn on this one. I don't know the guys involved in this incredibly stupid manuever but Holy cow, what the fuck were you thinking?!?!?!? A planned bump to keep from losing positions?!?!?!? Risking the lives of almost everyone on that track?!?!?! You owe everyone in that race, and in fact everyone in this series, a HUGE apology. You should also pay any and all damages done to any car remotely damaged in the incident. I would also support a severe penalty on both of the drivers involved in the planned bump!!!!! If you want to bump then go find a dirt track, a NASCAR track, or ,better yet, a bumper car ride at the county fair.

 

I will remember the drivers' names and make sure that I watch for them very carefully on future event registrations that I participate in. I do not want to fall victim to their extremely poor judgement.

[Tri-Agan]

I just watch the vid.

Are you F'ing kidding me?

Please Kent, NEVER EVER EVER talk smack about Texas and the contact we seem to have. You guys are SOOOOOOO lucky the outcome was only as bad as it was.

 

Having watched the videos, I completely agree with Glenn on this one. I don't know the guys involved in this incredibly stupid manuever but Holy cow, what the fuck were you thinking?!?!?!? A planned bump to keep from losing positions?!?!?!? Risking the lives of almost everyone on that track?!?!?! You owe everyone in that race, and in fact everyone in this series, a HUGE apology. You should also pay any and all damages done to any car remotely damaged in the incident. I would also support a severe penalty on both of the drivers involved in the planned bump!!!!! If you want to bump then go find a dirt track, a NASCAR track, or ,better yet, a bumper car ride at the county fair.

 

I will remember the drivers' names and make sure that I watch for them very carefully on future event registrations that I participate in. I do not want to fall victim to their extremely poor judgement.

 

This type of response, and especially the better than thou tone, is exactly why this forum has become a joke throughout the country.

 

Whether you like it or not, this same type of thing happens in almost every sanctioning body, and in almost every race class across the country....Miata, 944's GTS, spec E-30 and CMC. I'm sorry that you don't agree with it, but bump drafting happens once in a long while, planned and unplanned, I don't disagree that there are potential issues, but to sit there and blow it all out of proportion and make it seem like it happens all day long, is an unfair characterization of the facts.

[Glenn]

Yep, and the tone you have taken about other regions (Texas mostly) has made you a joke.

Man up and admit you F'ed up by planningit and F'ed up the execution too.

 

Also, if you got Rob Liebbe to post and say a negative word, you really did something bad. He's normally a pretty quiet guy.

[CMC#11]

I'm just wondering why the rear car even agreed to the planned bump draft in the first place. Why not just drive around you for position?

[Tri-Agan]

Yep, and the tone you have taken about other regions (Texas mostly) has made you a joke.

Man up and admit you F'ed up by planningit and F'ed up the execution too.

 

Also, if you got Rob Liebbe to post and say a negative word, you really did something bad. He's normally a pretty quiet guy.

 

To sit there and pretend that bumping doesn't happen in 30 car Miata fields or any large fields for that matter is just plain naive, because it happens all day long in the other race classes. I don't agree at all, but in fact, some of the drivers in other classes think it's the best way to make a pass.

 

You guys dig your own hole everyday, I don't have to help. You probably don't even notice it like the rest of the world does, but the current group of regulars....mostly from Texas, turn the topics into an argument instead of a discussion. You have alienated almost every driver east of the Missisippi because they don't know jack crap like you guys do. For that reason everyone makes jokes about how great your group is, and how you guys know everything there is to know about everything. What's even funnier, is that you guys sit there and expect the same group of guys to want to show up at Nationals and torture themsleves for a week dealing with the same group.

 

I've been told that the real Texas group isn't what's seen on the forum. Right now this forum is the measuring stick that the rest of the country uses to base their impression of the Texas group, and unfortunately, they don't like what they see. Don't shoot the messenger.

[Tri-Agan]

I'm just wondering why the rear car even agreed to the planned bump draft in the first place. Why not just drive around you for position?

 

He didn't feel he could get over, and normally our car scoots a lot faster than it did that day. Normally we're a pretty safe bet to follow.

[NickS]

Enough.

[mitchntx1548534714]

Beyond premeditated car-to-car contact, why did the camera car get on and off the gas several times between when the pace car left the track and the green flag waved?

 

The domino effect on the guys behind him must've been enormous.

 

We've always been taught to maintain distance and speed once the field is formed. That's from our Race Director, not the Regional Directors. Any shananigans after the field is formed would be considered jumping the start ... or attempting to, any way.

 

I don't think any one would be naive enough to think car-to-car contact doesn't happen. It does.

 

But to promote it? That's a new one ...

 

Also, was there an edit in the time line? The race director dings us HARD if we even loosen our belts before going behind pit wall. That driver appeared to remove gear and get out of the car without even a discussion with a corner worker.

 

Again ... these are both NASA things, not necessarily CMC things.

[RichV]

Huh. Watched the vids.

 

I have to fill out a contact report if I hit a orange cone in grid. So that shit would definitely not fly with our Directors. Contact happens, no way to avoid it. But they are called 'accidents' not 'purposes'.

 

We've done inverted starts many times with lots of faster cars on my rear. I can't say there has ever been an incident like the video.

[mitchntx1548534714]

Thinking more about it ...

 

I, for one, appreciate Kent posting that video and explaining the circumstances.

 

He has and is taking a lot of heat for it, but you know, its good that the series as a whole becomes more transparent.

 

Knowing what one region does and comparing that to your own region makes the whole series a better place.

 

Kent, thanks for sharing that ...