DrC Posted August 10, 2010 Author Share Posted August 10, 2010 In July was able to test the changes and no more heat issues. I replaced the radiator cap, could only find a 16lb which is stock. Remove the thermostat – running wide open, but come winter I will install a 160 degree thermostat and see how that work. Also ordered and installed the air dam used on the Bronco II or Ford Ranger (Ford Part Number: E3TZ-10001A06-B). After doing a little cutting it fit in alongside the stock air dam if that is what you want to call it. Below are picture of it installed. Thanks everyone for your help. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nasa-rm Posted August 10, 2010 Share Posted August 10, 2010 air dam used on the Bronco II or Ford Ranger (Ford Part Number: E3TZ-10001A06-B). ] Right now RockAuto.com is selling these for $8.66 each on closeout. I bought two . I think they have 6 left at that price. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adam Ginsberg Posted August 11, 2010 Share Posted August 11, 2010 Keep a close eye on how low that airdam is to the ground. The CMC rules are very specific on this. FWIW, I was DQ'd from an 8th place finish at the 2006 Nationals for my airdam being too low. 7.5.2 A front air dam may be used provided it meets the following requirements: 1. Air dams must fit securely to the body with minimum modifications to the original bumper cover. 2. Air dams must only extend downward from the original bumper cover, with no horizontal sections, and may not protrude beyond the overall outline of the body when viewed from above. 3. Early Ford (pre-2005) may use the following aftermarket front air dams which were available from the OEM: Saleen or Roush (Mustang only) ..... 7.5.5 No body component with the exception of the radiator air deflector shall be lower than 4†measured vertically from the ground. Radiator air deflectors shall be no lower than 2 inches measured vertically from the ground. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sidney Posted August 11, 2010 Share Posted August 11, 2010 Adam, That is not an Air Dam....it's a Radiator Air Deflector and can be 2 inches from the ground. You were DQ'd for your Air Dam being too low...not your Radiator Air Deflector being too low. Sidney CMC #64 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adam Ginsberg Posted August 11, 2010 Share Posted August 11, 2010 That is not an Air Dam....it's a Radiator Air Deflector and can be 2 inches from the ground. The item Dan pictured is an air dam, not a radiator air deflector. It curves around the sides of the car. This is a radiator air deflector (car #71, Fox3 Mustang): It's directly under the radiator, and does not curve around the car. You were DQ'd for your Air Dam being too low...not your Radiator Air Deflector being too low. Believe me, I recall exactly why I was DQ'd. Jeremiah Kellam had a qual time DQ'd at the 2009 Nationals for the same air dam, on the same chassis (SN95), being too low to the ground. It's the same piece that was on my car at the 2006 Nats, was deemed an air dam, and was too low, hence my DQ. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sidney Posted August 11, 2010 Share Posted August 11, 2010 Adam, I thought the issue was your AIRDAM that was bolted/riveted/screwed to the front of your fascia and I seem to remember seeing it parked on the concrete pad getting the "look over". I also seem to remember it looked more like an AI car front Airdam as it was pretty substantial...ie, deep. However, that was several years ago and I've slept since then. On second thought forget I mentioned anything...F-bodies rock. Sorry for you Mustang guys. Sidney CMC #64 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KiMifan Posted August 11, 2010 Share Posted August 11, 2010 This is the first I've heard about curvature coming into play and appears to be an area that needs further clarification, as I thought it had been determined that if the part was attached under the lower radiator support it was deemed to be a radiator air deflector. If it's attached to the front of the fascia or bumper cover, then it's an airdam. 7.5.2 would appear to support that conclusion, as it defines the location of an airdam twice: 1. Air dams must fit securely to the body with minimum modifications to the original bumper cover. 2. Air dams must only extend downward from the original bumper cover, Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CMC#11 Posted August 11, 2010 Share Posted August 11, 2010 If it bolts under the radiator, isn't it considered a radiator air deflector? Why does it matter if it is curved? Wouldn't the piece Dan installed (directly below the radiator) be measured to the 2" rule? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Glenn Posted August 11, 2010 Share Posted August 11, 2010 If it bolts under the radiator, isn't it considered a radiator air deflector? Why does it matter if it is curved?Wouldn't the piece Dan installed (directly below the radiator) be measured to the 2" rule? yes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adam Ginsberg Posted August 12, 2010 Share Posted August 12, 2010 If it bolts under the radiator, isn't it considered a radiator air deflector? Why does it matter if it is curved? If it's curved, and goes around to the sides, it's an air dam as it's designed to move air around the car and limit the amount of air going under the car. The piece Dan pictured is the exact same piece that was on my car (Ranger air dam), and it was bolted directly under the radiator, to the radiator core support (same location, and bolt holes, the factory bumper cover is bolted to). Mine was ruled an air dam, and was too low for the 4" minimum. IIRC, it would have met the 2" radiator deflector rule, but that rule hadn't yet been added to the CMC ruleset. Wouldn't the piece Dan installed (directly below the radiator) be measured to the 2" rule? At the 2009 Nats, Al looked at the piece JK had on his car, and agreed with my ruling that it was an air dam due to it curving around to the sides. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DrC Posted August 12, 2010 Author Share Posted August 12, 2010 I plan to run CMC next year so how would I get a clear ruling on this so there is no questions later? I have worked real hard to not have any questions when it comes to the rules. I will supply more pictures later. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Den341548534727 Posted August 12, 2010 Share Posted August 12, 2010 For the sake of arguement...If Dan cut the curved part off his "air dam" it would then become a radiator air deflector and then he could have it two inches off the ground. Correct? Dan, I would get the tin snips out because the radiator air deflector is going to do you a whole lot more good being two inches off the ground keeping the engine cool than the last six inches of the "Air dam" will ever do. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CMC#11 Posted August 12, 2010 Share Posted August 12, 2010 If it bolts under the radiator, isn't it considered a radiator air deflector? Why does it matter if it is curved? If it's curved, and goes around to the sides, it's an air dam as it's designed to move air around the car and limit the amount of air going under the car. The piece Dan pictured is the exact same piece that was on my car (Ranger air dam), and it was bolted directly under the radiator, to the radiator core support (same location, and bolt holes, the factory bumper cover is bolted to). Mine was ruled an air dam, and was too low for the 4" minimum. IIRC, it would have met the 2" radiator deflector rule, but that rule hadn't yet been added to the CMC ruleset. Wouldn't the piece Dan installed (directly below the radiator) be measured to the 2" rule? At the 2009 Nats, Al looked at the piece JK had on his car, and agreed with my ruling that it was an air dam due to it curving around to the sides. An air dam is a piece that specifically states is connected to the front bumper, this does not do that. I have run this exact same piece as Dan't picture for the last 4+ years. I did have an instance about 2 years ago when this was checked after a race and it came up as 3 15/16" from the ground. (At that time the rule was 4", not 2" for a radiator air deflector). Soon after that the 2" radiator air deflector rule was changed and the discussion of height was a non-issue. The issue last year at Nats w/ Jeremiah's car was because his "air dam" was connected to the front bumper. IIRC, the questioning was whether it was considered an air deflector b/c all the air was drawn in from the front bumper area, or if it was considered an air dam b/c it was connected to the front bumper. As mentioned, it was ruled as an air dam b/c it was connected to the front bumper. If the piece Dan pictured is thought to be an "air dam" b/c it is curved then the "radiator air deflector" rule needs to be changed to note this. The piece in question is sold from Ford as a radiator air deflector. If you or any other directors feel otherwise then make an ammendment to the rules. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KiMifan Posted August 12, 2010 Share Posted August 12, 2010 Adam, I'm pretty sure the 2 inch radiator deflector rule was put into place after the 2006 Nationals when you had your problem, so that ruling is moot in the context of the current rule. And I think you're pulling that bit about curvature changing it's definition out of your ass. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Glenn Posted August 12, 2010 Share Posted August 12, 2010 Radiator Air deflector = OEM part. Air Dam = non-OEM part. The 4th gens require this OEM radiator air deflactor in order to cool. Even in 100% OEM trim they will not cool w/ out it. The old rule required you to trim it to get the car anywhere close to the 4.5" min ride hieght at the rocker. So the rule was changed to allow this to get to 2". Air dams still had to be 4". So we should be calling the OEM parts designed to deflect air to the rad Radiator AIr Deflectors, and Air dams are everyhting else regadless of mounting location. Otherwise I'll put an "Air Dam" on the bumper cover like I once had and call it a "Radiator Air Deflector" for my front breather set-up and run it 2" off the ground. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Glenn Posted August 12, 2010 Share Posted August 12, 2010 You guys surely wouldn't call thia a Radiator Air Deflector" would you? Well thatswhat its doing, right? http://www.aicmctexas.com/forums/gallery2.php?g2_itemId=562 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KiMifan Posted August 12, 2010 Share Posted August 12, 2010 Radiator Air deflector = OEM part.Air Dam = non-OEM part. OEM part or OEM location? Are you saying this can't be 2 inches off the ground? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Glenn Posted August 12, 2010 Share Posted August 12, 2010 I'm saying if that is not an OEM part or your car didnt come w/ that type of part from the OEM, its an Air Dam. And its subject to those rules. My opinion only. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adam Ginsberg Posted August 12, 2010 Share Posted August 12, 2010 The issue last year at Nats w/ Jeremiah's car was because his "air dam" was connected to the front bumper. IIRC, the questioning was whether it was considered an air deflector b/c all the air was drawn in from the front bumper area, or if it was considered an air dam b/c it was connected to the front bumper. As mentioned, it was ruled as an air dam b/c it was connected to the front bumper. No, it was considered an air dam because it went ALL the way around the front of the car, and wrapped/curved around the sides. JK trimmed the curved portion off the left and right side, making it into what a stock radiator air deflector looks like. Adam, I'm pretty sure the 2 inch radiator deflector rule was put into place after the 2006 Nationals when you had your problem, so that ruling is moot in the context of the current rule. And I think you're pulling that bit about curvature changing it's definition out of your ass. Glenn covered why the RAD/2" rule came about, and why it was differentiated from an air dam. Not to be a dick, Matt, but I don't care if you think I'm pulling the definition from my ass or not. It was the discussion I had with Al at the 2009 Nats regarding JK's car, and the fact that it curved around the sides of the car was why I ruled it an air dam. This is an air dam, and cannot be any closer than 4" off the ground: http://www.aicmctexas.com/gallery/main.php?g2_view=core.DownloadItem&g2_itemId=562&g2_serialNumber=1&g2_GALLERYSID=0087ae3c6dc37b5a6f228cdddb533e39 This is a radiator air deflector and cannot be any closer than 2" off the ground: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KiMifan Posted August 12, 2010 Share Posted August 12, 2010 You've got two directors disagreeing about what's a legal radiator deflector and a ruling at the Nationals that hasn't been incorporated in writing into the rulebook, so it looks like that's a top item to put on the list for off-season rules discussion. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CMC#11 Posted August 12, 2010 Share Posted August 12, 2010 I agree that what Matt posted is a radiator air deflector and what Glenn posted is an air dam. Matt's is under the radiator and Glenn's is bolted to the front bumper. If Dan's is bolted under the radiator, isn't it a radiator air deflector? Who cares if it is curved on the outsides. I have run this same piece since building my car and it has never been considered an air dam. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RichV Posted August 12, 2010 Share Posted August 12, 2010 air dam used on the Bronco II or Ford Ranger (Ford Part Number: E3TZ-10001A06-B). ] Right now RockAuto.com is selling these for $8.66 each on closeout. I bought two . I think they have 6 left at that price. Nice, I picked one up too. Can't beat $20 shipped. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nasa-rm Posted August 12, 2010 Share Posted August 12, 2010 air dam used on the Bronco II or Ford Ranger (Ford Part Number: E3TZ-10001A06-B). ] Right now RockAuto.com is selling these for $8.66 each on closeout. I bought two . I think they have 6 left at that price. Nice, I picked one up too. Can't beat $20 shipped. I guess I'll loan Joe my second one since we're finishing his car at my place. You coming over on Sunday for a "build party"? We can sit around, drink beer, watch Joe work on his car and BS.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
camaro_1le Posted August 12, 2010 Share Posted August 12, 2010 If Dan's is bolted under the radiator, isn't it a radiator air deflector? Who cares if it is curved on the outsides.I have run this same piece since building my car and it has never been considered an air dam. That is an interesting point. I have looked at upgrading my air deflector (the main source of air to the radiator for a third gen). Instead of bending back, I had toyed with the idea of running it for width and bending the ends forward...aka a big scoop. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RichV Posted August 12, 2010 Share Posted August 12, 2010 You coming over on Sunday for a "build party"? We can sit around, drink beer, watch Joe work on his car and BS.. Yea, I'll be there. Let me/Joe know if I need to bring anything. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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