CMC Wing Poll Inside!

[CMC#11]

 

I had the Fulcrum Aeroworks wing on mine that was a smaller size to comply with the rules and was made out of fiberglass. It was retail for $700 and was still completely adjustable.

I had it on my car for free and ran it for a little over a year and they realized CMC was not going to spend the money on it so I removed it. I thought it looked terrible and couldn't feel any performance improvement since we can't do anything regarding a splitter up front.

 

They work great for AI but have no right in CMC (in my opinion).

[mitchntx1548534714]

couldn't feel any performance improvement

 

I certainly could.

[KiMifan]

Can anyone name the parts from a Cobra R (that make it a Cobra R and not just a GT) that are not currently legal in CMC other than the engine?

Not legal: hood, front splitter, 18-inch wheels, engine. Legal: brakes (in CMC2), rear wing, T-56 trans.

[MHISSTC]

What would be nice is to see photos of all of these tuners wings, spoilers, etc.

 

OMG! That is quite an extensive list, but I can just about fully accommodate you on the Mustang side of the house. Click on the following link to see the majority of the factory and aftermarket styles that have been talked about so far, plus several more of the "popular" styles available. There are a few more that aren't on that site, but those are mostly the "duck-tail" style that I don't think most folks have a problem with and the "super-ricer" ones I think most folks do not find acceptable.

 

http://www.abcexclusive.com/wings_main.htm

 

Notes:

- The BOSS wing is a copy of the Shinoda wing I referenced before.

- The '79-'93 SLN is a copy of the smaller Saleen wing. There was a bigger version that is a rare unit, but those aren't reproduced by anyone. I included a picture of the bigger wing below.

- There aren't copies of the Steeda wings on that site, so I included pictures of those below too.

- There are some Saleen wings available for the newer cars that aren't shown on that site, but they kind of go along with rear body pieces that would not be acceptable for CMC, so not showing those is probably OK.

 

Saleen foxbody BIG wing. The photo angle exaggerates the wing a bit.:

 

Steeda foxbody aerospoiler:

 

Steeda Street Wing:

 

Steeda Race Wing:

[KiMifan]

That link was awesome. Since they make a 2000R style wing for every Mustang generation since 79, that should become the CMC spec wing for all the cars--including Camaros and Firebirds.

[Al F.]

Guys there are a lot of good comments here. Overall I am of the opinion that closer to stock is better for CMC2 than some of the options our rule allows. Thats my personal opinion as a racer. As a director I have to take into account the impact such a change can have on existing drivers.

 

What I dont see is evidence that an immediate change is needed to fix an endemic problem. I would therefore like to take the time for our regional directors to work with their drivers over 2011 to root through all of the options, pluses/minuses etc. and come up with a proposal for 2012. If we get to the point we are comfortable with a proposal half way through the year and want to issue a tech bulletin at that point that will be fine (we'll give people plenty of time to adapt, dont worry)

 

Thanks

[ls168camaro]

We all know that CMC isn't a democracy or this vote would change the rule. Whatever happened to majority rule. I guess 76% isn't EVIDENCE. The original post asked if the rule changed would it affect you and it would only affect one person that responded. When looking at the goal of CMC racing to be cost effective and as close to stock its hard for me to understand why allowing $700 wings even became an option. Though just because its been there since 2003 doesn't mean it shouldn't be changed and was a bad allowance to begin with.

 

If our director thinks today that something could be changed mid year, why not go ahead and make the change before the season starts? Why not make the change before more people spend more money on something that likely won't be legal this time next year? Remember-I have a wing in the works and have already invested time/money into this project. This means not only the money for the wing but upcoming track testing it, tweaking it for different tracks etc. So what I work on for the next 6 months could be thrown out the window for TWS in August?? In know-don't worry there will be plenty of time to adapt and throw my wing in the trash.

 

Tune in next month for "Wind Tunnel with Bryan Leinart"

[camaro_1le]

What I am curious about is why one of the directors posted the poll after the 2011 rules were published. Why was not the poll posted prior to their discussions or put out for comment?

 

This poll and topic was started by a director.

 

The only thing posting a poll out there and especially with the overwhelming majority opposing the current rules does is to create discontent.

[mitchntx1548534714]

From my POV ...

 

Open discussion about potential rules changes, discussion about the reasons behind a rule's existence and knowing what my fellow competitor's think helps the series become more understanding, tolerent and cohesive.

 

Covert, behind the scenes decision-making based on the opinion of a select few without any resemblence of fact-finding amongst the customer base creates discontent.

[camaro_1le]

From my POV ...

 

Open discussion about potential rules changes, discussion about the reasons behind a rule's existence and knowing what my fellow competitor's think helps the series become more understanding, tolerent and cohesive.

 

Covert, behind the scenes decision-making based on the opinion of a select few without any resemblence of fact-finding amongst the customer base creates discontent.

 

This was neither.

[Glenn]

What I am curious about is why one of the directors posted the poll after the 2011 rules were published. Why was not the poll posted prior to their discussions or put out for comment?

 

This poll and topic was started by a director.

 

The only thing posting a poll out there and especially with the overwhelming majority opposing the current rules does is to create discontent.

 

I'll explain best I can.

Each year some/few/many racers submit for a rules change that basically eliminates wings (air foils) form CMC/CMC2. As you all know, the 2011 rules updates/changes were completed a very short time ago. At the 2010 AI/CMC Texas Banquet (held just days after the rules were released), one of those racers, who submitted for this change and has for a few years now, asked why this rule seems to remain year after year even when so many seem opposed to it. He commented further that none of the racers and Directors he has spoken w/ over the last few years locally and nationally have been in favor of keeping it. I decided to collect this data from the Directors and get an answer.

So this all started in private among the Directors. I asked for a response from each of them to see who thought wings belonged in CMC or not. The part that most folks didn't realize was no matter the polarity of the Director towards this rule, most of them felt it more detrimental to change the rule now than to keep it.

So, along the lines of data gathering, I thought a poll would be a good way to see if our racers felt the same about the wings as our Directors do. It seems the disconnect between our racers and their representatives is about changing the rule, not the rule itself.

 

So I am the one who ping'ed the Directors. I'm the one who started the poll. I do not feel we should be repealing rules left and right. I do think that if a rule is really out of place, we should be willing to take a look at it. So while some may feel I created "discontent", I feel it was already there and I was only looking to get an answer to resolve some of that.

 

I felt it better to ask "why" now while it was still fresh in everyone's mind rather than a year from now.

 

I hope this answers some of your questions.

If you want to know how your Regional Director voted, drop them an email and ask.

[Al F.]

The fact that it was not included in the thread with the other RCRs is my fault. It was submitted, discussed, and voted down. When the rules were published the guys that submitted it started asking for some details, which they deserve. Glenn, representing them as they are from Texas, started the poll to get a broader picture than just Texas.

 

As to this poll being overwhelming evidence...it is and it isnt. Its overwhelming evidence that the majority of people with user IDs on this forum dont want wings. That doesnt mean it is a majority of actual CMC drivers since many (almost entire regions) dont post here regularly. There are somewhere in the vicinity of 150 CMC cars out there, not 30something.

 

I admit this is a strong indication, but that doesnt mean its a slam dunk either. Those that do want the rule want it for a reason. Perhaps they have already spent money on hardware and tuning. Assuming that poll is representative of the drivers, there are somewhere in the vicinity of 40 that want the rule like it is. I think we owe it to them to let this fully bake and not knee jerk and suddenly make all of their cars illegal.

 

Like you said Bryan, holding off on this means by then you might have spent a bunch of money which will be wasted. By that same logic making the change now results in every driver that alerady has a wing having wasted a bunch of money. Yours is potential spend, theirs is actual. Give it some time, it'll be worth it.

[mitchntx1548534714]

This was neither.

 

I'm not sure what you'd call it then ...

 

I want everyone to vote please.

 

Don't read anything into this, I'm just gathering data.

 

By the use of the word "wing", I'm targeting rear spoilers that act as an airfoil. Think elevated from the rear deck and only work if air pass's over and under it.

I'm not looking for opinions of the current wing rule, just a vote for keeping them or getting rid of them.

 

I just want to see if the Directors missed the mark when these were allowed.

 

Also, if the rule did change, post here if it would affect you.

 

That sounds pretty clear what the motivation was.

 

Would you prefer to know in January 2011 what the rule would be in January 2012? Or would you prefer to wait till December 2011?

 

One gives you a year and the other gives you a month.

[Glenn]

I'll take the year for $100 Alex.

[camaro_1le]

I feel partially vindicated now. That is a relief. Hey, this discussion has been ongoing since I moved into CMC. So another year and it may or may not happen? Sorry, I will take the month

 

The forums is not the end all, be all. But it does serve as a representative sampling of the current, past and future CMC competitors. If you search back through the threads, I think you will find that most people on the forums are opposed to the spoilers (wings).

 

If the only official gauge we have is the current poll (which I feel it is), yes it would be a tough call to make and may impact 40 out of the 200 drivers. But is it better for the series, probably.

 

Damn, people building $700 wings....maybe I have wing envy.

 

I was just laughing at my friend Beau at the Mid-Atlantic CMC party because he was dumping a ton of money and effort into aero on his Mustang so it would stay semi-competitive in AI.

[ls168camaro]

Hard to see how this would impact 40 drivers. In the Texas Region if I look at the 30 or so CMC cars I can only think of one car that it would impact. Maybe have each Reg. Dir. let us know how many cars it would actually impact. Seems you are taking 25% that voted to keep wings as meaning they had them on their cars.

 

I appreciate the opportunity to vote in a poll. I think it allows racers voices to be heard especially for those that may not post on the forums or speak up at the race track. I would love to see an end of the year vote on all the rule changes proposed to see what the class thinks.

 

Or what about at least seeing how the Reg. Dir. vote on each topic? Why don't we get to see how things are voted on like we do with our elected officials? What was the vote split on getting rid of wings by the Reg. Dir.?

[AllZWay]

I was a vote no...although I doubt Al had to guess my vote.

[ShadowBolt]

Hard to see how this would impact 40 drivers. In the Texas Region if I look at the 30 or so CMC cars I can only think of one car that it would impact. Maybe have each Reg. Dir. let us know how many cars it would actually impact. Seems you are taking 25% that voted to keep wings as meaning they had them on their cars.

 

I appreciate the opportunity to vote in a poll. I think it allows racers voices to be heard especially for those that may not post on the forums or speak up at the race track. I would love to see an end of the year vote on all the rule changes proposed to see what the class thinks.

 

Or what about at least seeing how the Reg. Dir. vote on each topic? Why don't we get to see how things are voted on like we do with our elected officials? What was the vote split on getting rid of wings by the Reg. Dir.?

 

 

 

If the 55 is the only CMC car in the Texas region that runs a wing I will take it off and we can be wing free.........at least in Texas. I really hate rice and most wings look like rice $hit. You would not believe how much the Cobra R wing screws up the rear view. If we are going to do this I would like to also see the home made spoilers go away. If the idea is to have the cars look stock then aluminum or Lexan home made spoilers have to go.

 

JJ

[BADVENM]

No wings in Rocky Mountain region...of course no CMC2 right now either.

[JoeK]

I like the idea of any production available wing (and spoiler and side skirts). To me it's nice to see period correct features on the cars when they're on track. Almost like watching a Saleen vs. Roush race (using Fords for example). Spectators would say, "I remember my old Trans-AM had that look to it!" or "My Dad used to have a Cobra that looked just like that one!"

 

Unless it violates other rules, such as extending past body lines, or less than the minimum ground clearance, would any of these parts really give performance gains?

If so, then I agree to not allow them. If not, what does it matter?

 

But the lexan stuff I see around, when did that option come from the factory? That's starting to look too "AI"ish for me.

 

If you want to out-spend me...go for it! But as long as the $1000 you just spent is all about the bling, than it ain't no thing!

[MHISSTC]

I want to let you all know how much I appreciate this open query and discussion. I'm not considering an expensive airfoil wing, but if a significant change to the current spoiler/wing rule results in me having to use my stock '85 GT spoiler instead of my cool Steeda Aerospoiler, it does wonders for my own personal sanity to know the process of how and why something eventually gets decided.

[mitchntx1548534714]

I want to let you all know how much I appreciate this open query and discussion. I'm not considering an expensive airfoil wing, but if a significant change to the current spoiler/wing rule results in me having to use my stock '85 GT spoiler instead of my cool Steeda Aerospoiler, it does wonders for my own personal sanity to know the process of how and why something eventually gets decided.

 

Exactly my point earlier.

 

Being open and honest about potential changes, whether its a big thing like this or something small, goes a LONG way to acceptance of the change.

 

Al posted all of the submittals for change to the rules. I think that was great and I appreciate it. However, it fell short in that there was never any follow-up on the reasoning behind why some changes were accepted and some weren't.

 

Knowing the process and reasoning behind the decision making gives me the information I need to either gather more data or realize I was just wrong for asking.

 

Knowing neither means I'll draw my own conclusions ... that is human nature. Without any communicating of reality, humans will create their own. We all do it.

[Sidney]

Hard to see how this would impact 40 drivers. In the Texas Region if I look at the 30 or so CMC cars I can only think of one car that it would impact. Maybe have each Reg. Dir. let us know how many cars it would actually impact. Seems you are taking 25% that voted to keep wings as meaning they had them on their cars.

 

I appreciate the opportunity to vote in a poll. I think it allows racers voices to be heard especially for those that may not post on the forums or speak up at the race track. I would love to see an end of the year vote on all the rule changes proposed to see what the class thinks.

 

Or what about at least seeing how the Reg. Dir. vote on each topic? Why don't we get to see how things are voted on like we do with our elected officials? What was the vote split on getting rid of wings by the Reg. Dir.?

 

 

 

...If we are going to do this I would like to also see the home made spoilers go away. If the idea is to have the cars look stock then aluminum or Lexan home made spoilers have to go.

 

JJ

 

I agree with this 100%. The Lexan rear spoilers look like crap (Sorry Glenn) and too Nascar for me. Stick with stock rear spoilers period. I'd rather not have the Saleen, Roush stuff either but if the vote hung between bling and homemade lexan then I'd allow the bling.

 

Sidney

CMC2 #64

 

P.S. No Wings in the Midwest or Great Lakes Regions either...We all took them off!

[Glenn]

Hard to see how this would impact 40 drivers. In the Texas Region if I look at the 30 or so CMC cars I can only think of one car that it would impact. Maybe have each Reg. Dir. let us know how many cars it would actually impact. Seems you are taking 25% that voted to keep wings as meaning they had them on their cars.

 

I appreciate the opportunity to vote in a poll. I think it allows racers voices to be heard especially for those that may not post on the forums or speak up at the race track. I would love to see an end of the year vote on all the rule changes proposed to see what the class thinks.

 

Or what about at least seeing how the Reg. Dir. vote on each topic? Why don't we get to see how things are voted on like we do with our elected officials? What was the vote split on getting rid of wings by the Reg. Dir.?

 

 

 

...If we are going to do this I would like to also see the home made spoilers go away. If the idea is to have the cars look stock then aluminum or Lexan home made spoilers have to go.

 

JJ

 

I agree with this 100%. The Lexan rear spoilers look like crap (Sorry Glenn) and too Nascar for me. Stick with stock rear spoilers period. I'd rather not have the Saleen, Roush stuff either but if the vote hung between bling and homemade lexan then I'd allow the bling.

 

Sidney

CMC2 #64

 

P.S. No Wings in the Midwest or Great Lakes Regions either...We all took them off!

 

Got me mixed up w/ someone else. I don't have anything like that.

[Sidney]

Glenn,

 

How about your opinoin? Aftermarket Wings, Roush wings, Lexan spoilers? What do you want to see?

 

Thanks,

 

Sidney