Best Mustang

[TurboShortBus]

What about wheels, what are some decent options?

We in GM land use old Corvette stuff.

 

You will want 17x9s for the 275mm tires. 275s will "fit" on 17x8s, but they don't fit properly. But, if they are all that you have...

 

17x8s that will clear 2000 Cobra R Brembo calipers without spacers:

-1998 Mustang Cobra (I use these for "driveway" wheels)

 

17x9s that will clear 2000 Cobra R Brembo calipers without spacers:

-1995 Mustang Cobra R (I have these set aside for rain tires, when I buy them)

-2003-2004 Mustang Cobra (I have used these for competition)

 

Any OEM Ford 17x8 or 17x9 will clear the GT and Cobra PBR calipers without spacers.

 

Backspacing on 2005+ Mustang wheels is different and will require spacers to move them out to where the SN95 wheels were.

 

Mark

[JoeK]

Thanks Michael, from what your saying a 94-95 cobra is the way to go?

How much for all the suspension bits? 2k?

Do they make the power?

I will pm you.

 

94-95 cobra? Why not a 94, 95 GT? If the Cobra can be had for cheap, then go for it, but most seller's want to charge more because it's a Cobra.

Most of the differences between the two, you'll change anyway.

I guess what I want to know, Is what do you gain from getting the Cobra?

 

I understand you're looking for a bolt in cage and race, but when you're looking at a budget; get the GT, change the brakes (easy), minor engine bolt-ons (easy), and it's no different then the Cobra.

 

If you want to know if they make the power, my stock '89 5.0 engine with heads dyno'd at 232hp/298tq. For CMC2, it'll take an hour to swap cheap bolt-ons and I'll be right at 260/310.

 

Suspension? 2K? Give me you're 2K, and I'll buy the parts and put them on for you, and keep the extra thousand.

You can get a good set of competition springs for $450, match some shocks/struts for another couple hundred, poly bushings, and you're good.

 

PS... when's the build party?? I need to pick up PBR's and I want them to be ICE COLD!

[TurboShortBus]

94-95 cobra? Why not a 94, 95 GT? If the Cobra can be had for cheap, then go for it, but most seller's want to charge more because it's a Cobra.

Most of the differences between the two, you'll change anyway.

I guess what I want to know, Is what do you gain from getting the Cobra?

Cobra-specific parts:

Cobra intake (GT-40 based)

GT-40 iron heads (better than the E7 heads in the GT)

13" PBR front brakes

11.65" vented rear brakes <-- correction made

Oil cooler (if it matters to you)

Nose with better foglight holes for brake ducts (if it matters to you)

24 lb/hr injectors (over the GT 19 lb/hr injectors, but not necessary)

Different sway bars

Different master cylinder

White gauge faces (important, I know)

 

But yes, many Cobra owners seem to think that their cars are worth top dollar. If you can find one with a rough exterior or trashed leather seats (Ford's baloney leather is garbage), then you might be able to pick it up cheap.

 

Mark

Edited July 22, 2011 by Guest

[MHISSTC]

Scott that second one is a good start, pick it up for 3-3500.

 

If I get one of these done before pueblo, bring your checkbook. I don't want to sit on my investment all winter.

Price...a smooth 10k

 

That's my current favorite...and I want it before you mess with it.

 

Did you notice the shock towers were red beneath the cheap black respray and the non-stock color on the exterior? That's why I mentioned finding a cheap one without a salvage title.

[supermac]

Scott that second one is a good start, pick it up for 3-3500.

 

If I get one of these done before pueblo, bring your checkbook. I don't want to sit on my investment all winter.

Price...a smooth 10k

 

That's my current favorite...and I want it before you mess with it.

 

Did you notice the shock towers were red beneath the cheap black respray and the non-stock color on the exterior? That's why I mentioned finding a cheap one without a salvage title.

I did notice the red paint.

And Scott if you get it before I mess with it, it will just be another car in your collection, that might race someday. What good would that do anybody?

[supermac]

Thanks Michael, from what your saying a 94-95 cobra is the way to go?

How much for all the suspension bits? 2k?

Do they make the power?

I will pm you.

 

94-95 cobra? Why not a 94, 95 GT? If the Cobra can be had for cheap, then go for it, but most seller's want to charge more because it's a Cobra.

Most of the differences between the two, you'll change anyway.

I guess what I want to know, Is what do you gain from getting the Cobra?

 

I understand you're looking for a bolt in cage and race, but when you're looking at a budget; get the GT, change the brakes (easy), minor engine bolt-ons (easy), and it's no different then the Cobra.

 

Ifo you want to know if they make the power, my stock '89 5.0 engine with heads dyno'd at 232hp/298tq. For CMC2, it'll take an hour to swap cheap bolt-ons and I'll be right at 260/310.

 

Suspension? 2K? Give me you're 2K, and I'll buy the parts and put them on for you, and keep the extra thousand.

You can get a good set of competition springs for $450, match some shocks/struts for another couple hundred, poly bushings, and you're good.

 

PS... when's the build party?? I need to pick up PBR's and I want them to be ICE COLD!

 

Joe you are the man! If we get a non-cobra I will put you in charge of cobraizing it.

Build party tbd. Prolly at tommys

[JoeK]

Cobra-specific parts:[/u]

Cobra intake (GT-40 based)

GT-40 iron heads (better than the E7 heads in the GT)

13" PBR front brakes

10.65" vented rear brakes

Oil cooler (if it matters to you)

Nose with better foglight holes for brake ducts (if it matters to you)

24 lb/hr injectors (over the GT 19 lb/hr injectors, but not necessary)

Different sway bars

 

Cool.

I wasn't sure of the gains, in stock form. I kind of want to get one myself now.

 

If he's looking to get the Brembo set-up, would it matter what the starting point is though? If you're going to do the Brembos, it'd be no different to get a GT or Cobra, in my opinion.

 

The GT40 heads, intake, and injectors can be found for EASILY under $500 on craigslist, so if a GT can be found for a lot less, I bet even Cody can figure out how to put those on.

 

http://denver.craigslist.org/pts/2491816050.html

 

It does sound like the 94/95 Cobra is nice for a stock set-up if you're not planning on doing any work to it.

 

...even better, a guy with a GT who upgraded his brakes and put the GT40 stuff already on....

[TurboShortBus]

If he's looking to get the Brembo set-up, would it matter what the starting point is though? If you're going to do the Brembos, it'd be no different to get a GT or Cobra, in my opinion.

Nope, the starting point wouldn't matter much if you are going with the Brembos, although you can re-use the existing 13" Cobra rotors in a pinch. The same 13" rotors work with the Cobra PBRs and Brembos.

 

FWIW, when I bought my 2000 Cobra R Brembos, I sold the pair of fancy-pants Brembo rotors that came in the kit for $300 and bought 10 Bendix rotors (made in Canada) on closeout at Advance Auto parts for $29 each. Score.

 

The GT40 heads, intake, and injectors can be found for EASILY under $500 on craigslist, so if a GT can be found for a lot less...

If you install different injectors in a GT, then you will also need to recalibrate the MAF or install an aftermarket one (if permitted). From the factory, the calibration is in the ECU, not the meter, so installing a Cobra MAF will not change anything.

 

Mark

[MHISSTC]

And Scott if you get it before I mess with it, it will just be another car in your collection, that might race someday. What good would that do anybody?

 

That's probably true... ...and probably the reason I haven't already gotten it since it's shown up regularly on Craigslist for the better part of about a year and a half.

[CMC#11]

Cody, to answer your question to what is the equivalent of the LS1 Camaro the answer is the 05+ Mustang. There is nothing below 05 that you can bolt a cage in and be competitive. There is just too much that needs to be done to get to the power numbers and get the suspension to not suck.

 

17x9 wheels:

Any stock Ford wheel is going to weigh at least 24 lbs.

I run MB Weapons that weigh 19.5 lbs and are $150 eash. You can also get Konig's that are 20 lbs. each for $200 each.

MB Competitions are 20 lbs. but have been discontinued.

I don't know of another "cheap" option that doesn't weigh at least 24 lbs.

 

JoeK, I don't see how you can do all the suspension needs for the 1k you stated. Or the 2k that Cody stated. You can build a car that will be on track but it will be nowhere near the front.

I am pricing this for new parts:

You need at minimum shocks (500-1500), springs (250-400), c/c plates (200), front bushings (150), bump steer kit (125), rear lca (250-400), panhard bar (350), uca bushings (100), subframe connectors (125). I see a low end of $2,050 and a high end of $3,350.

Also, $500 for GT40 heads, intake, and injectors (in TX at least) buys junk. Cobra intakes are around 250 and heads are 300-600 (depending on quality).

 

These are just my impressions from my build and the others I've seen.

I personally think a good front runner would cost 12-15k if you want to go through the entire car (drivetrain, susp, brakes, etc).

If you want to roll the dice and not touch the motor, trans, diff, etc. then you could do it for 10k.

[supermac]

Michael, thanks for the input.

I hear what your saying and my car is nowhere near fully prepped, I just have shocks

springs on my car, none of the rest of the other stuff.

I'm just looking to put something on the track that is fun and safe.

Are there any bolt on panhard bars?

Sounds like I can put the 2k suspension setup on for what I want.

[jdlingle]

Maximum motorsports has a bolt in panhard rod. Their road and track box package is a real good option for the mustangs. I piecemealed mine together back when they had to deal of the day special goingand got it all for about 1800. I think it runs about 2500 bucks now.

[Adam Ginsberg]

Cody - you might consider doing a "staged" build. Meaning, Stage 1 is all the safety gear, standard SN95 Cobra brakes, good shocks.

 

Stage 2 gets upgraded brakes (4-piston setup), more suspension goodies.

 

Stage 3 gets all of the above, plus a fire system, better shocks, etc.

 

This way, the new owner can at least get the car on track, and make changes as he progresses.

 

FWIW, my car started out as a $4500 former A-Sedan. It took several years of changes to make it (and the driver) more competitive. I didn't have the money to do it all at once.

 

Unfortunately, if you want to build a very competitive Fox or SN95 Ford chassis, it takes WAY more than simply putting in a cage, tossing in better pads, and bolting RA1s to the car.

[TurboShortBus]

FWIW, I have a set of 4 17x9 1995 Cobra R look-alikes, chrome plated and likely made in China, that weigh 22 lbs each and were bought on Craigslist for less than the price of a single 20 lb Konig.

 

Based on the spoke-cracking that I have personally seen on the Konig Villains (made in Taiwan), I don't think that they are anything special. Maybe they were discontinued for a reason.

 

Mark

[supermac]

Cody - you might consider doing a "staged" build. Meaning, Stage 1 is all the safety gear, standard SN95 Cobra brakes, good shocks.

 

Stage 2 gets upgraded brakes (4-piston setup), more suspension goodies.

 

Stage 3 gets all of the above, plus a fire system, better shocks, etc.

 

This way, the new owner can at least get the car on track, and make changes as he progresses.

 

FWIW, my car started out as a $4500 former A-Sedan. It took several years of changes to make it (and the driver) more competitive. I didn't have the money to do it all at once.

 

Unfortunately, if you want to build a very competitive Fox or SN95 Ford chassis, it takes WAY more than simply putting in a cage, tossing in better pads, and bolting RA1s to the car.

 

This is the plan of attack I have decided on.

I know that this will not be a national caliber car but it will still be fun to race.

I think I found my car, a 96 with a new motor and a fresh tranny. I know this isn't the 5.0 but it is new and I can swing the buy in.

[mattr1548534738]

When I started building my mustang a few years ago I had never driven on track. As soon as I started my build I went in with the mindset that I would it "right" the first time. Starting with an 86 mustang that meant going to discs all around, the full Maximum Motorsports package, fully stripped interior with race seats, etc. Since everything was worn out it took quite a bit of investment to get my fox mustang safe for the track (about $8k including purchase price and some consumables). I did about a half dozen track days in my stock civic then another dozen in the mustang and finally got my comp license in June and will be competing at my second event this weekend. I've obviously invested quite a bit more getting my car track ready in the last year, some budget has been very unexpected.

 

Reflecting on my path I would consider a few different things before buying a car. If I had started with a track ready car (<100k miles on original shocks, full disc brakes, reliable engine) I could have done my licensing in a less expensive (RWD!) package and continued on the "staged" method of my build. This would have uncovered a few items I wouldn't have had to do twice and I could have spread my budget over a longer time, but would have required me buying a newer car (probably S197). If you go with the mindset of building the entire car from the onset and getting licensed in that, like me, I still think the fox or SN95 is a good package. I bought my car for $500 and likely would have done the same number of modifications as an SN95 to get race ready. I'm pretty far from being experienced enough to understand the subtleties in performance between the platforms but I think a newcomer should be more focused on investment and staging upgrades then building a nationals caliber car for HPDE.

[JoeK]

This is the plan of attack I have decided on.

I know that this will not be a national caliber car but it will still be fun to race.

I think I found my car, a 96 with a new motor and a fresh tranny. I know this isn't the 5.0 but it is new and I can swing the buy in.

 

SWEET!

A new motor and fresh tranny will be nice.

I'm not well versed on the mod motor, but if you need a hand doing anything to the rest of the car, let me know.

 

You trying to get it ready for HPR or Pueblo?

[CMC#11]

Cody - you might consider doing a "staged" build. Meaning, Stage 1 is all the safety gear, standard SN95 Cobra brakes, good shocks.

 

Stage 2 gets upgraded brakes (4-piston setup), more suspension goodies.

 

Stage 3 gets all of the above, plus a fire system, better shocks, etc.

 

This way, the new owner can at least get the car on track, and make changes as he progresses.

 

FWIW, my car started out as a $4500 former A-Sedan. It took several years of changes to make it (and the driver) more competitive. I didn't have the money to do it all at once.

 

Unfortunately, if you want to build a very competitive Fox or SN95 Ford chassis, it takes WAY more than simply putting in a cage, tossing in better pads, and bolting RA1s to the car.

 

This is the plan of attack I have decided on.

I know that this will not be a national caliber car but it will still be fun to race.

I think I found my car, a 96 with a new motor and a fresh tranny. I know this isn't the 5.0 but it is new and I can swing the buy in.

Cody, beware of the 96-98 4.6's. They came with dog shit heads and you will be luck to get very north of 200hp.

Every 4.6 I have heard of (including Dave's old purple car) installed the newer PI heads (99-04) to get the power numbers.

I would hate for you to get the car with a new motor that still needs a lot of work to get the hp numbers.

[jdlingle]

Cody - you might consider doing a "staged" build. Meaning, Stage 1 is all the safety gear, standard SN95 Cobra brakes, good shocks.

 

Stage 2 gets upgraded brakes (4-piston setup), more suspension goodies.

 

Stage 3 gets all of the above, plus a fire system, better shocks, etc.

 

This way, the new owner can at least get the car on track, and make changes as he progresses.

 

FWIW, my car started out as a $4500 former A-Sedan. It took several years of changes to make it (and the driver) more competitive. I didn't have the money to do it all at once.

 

Unfortunately, if you want to build a very competitive Fox or SN95 Ford chassis, it takes WAY more than simply putting in a cage, tossing in better pads, and bolting RA1s to the car.

 

This is the plan of attack I have decided on.

I know that this will not be a national caliber car but it will still be fun to race.

I think I found my car, a 96 with a new motor and a fresh tranny. I know this isn't the 5.0 but it is new and I can swing the buy in.

Cody, beware of the 96-98 4.6's. They came with dog shit heads and you will be luck to get very north of 200hp.

Every 4.6 I have heard of (including Dave's old purple car) installed the newer PI heads (99-04) to get the power numbers.

I would hate for you to get the car with a new motor that still needs a lot of work to get the hp numbers.

 

+1 to this Cody. My 96 had the following on its dyno sticker when I got my comp license and did my first race weekend: 199HP/260TQ I have installed the PI heads now (no dyno yet) but if doing it over again I would have bought a 99+ to save some money on the engine end of things.

[supermac]

Awesome tip dudes, I have requested a dyno!

[JoeK]

Awesome tip dudes, I have requested a dyno!

 

Geez, you're buying a dyno now? I thought you were looking for a car.

 

... there goes the 10K budget

[supermac]

Cody - you might consider doing a "staged" build. Meaning, Stage 1 is all the safety gear, standard SN95 Cobra brakes, good shocks.

 

Stage 2 gets upgraded brakes (4-piston setup), more suspension goodies.

 

Stage 3 gets all of the above, plus a fire system, better shocks, etc.

 

This way, the new owner can at least get the car on track, and make changes as he progresses.

 

FWIW, my car started out as a $4500 former A-Sedan. It took several years of changes to make it (and the driver) more competitive. I didn't have the money to do it all at once.

 

Unfortunately, if you want to build a very competitive Fox or SN95 Ford chassis, it takes WAY more than simply putting in a cage, tossing in better pads, and bolting RA1s to the car.

 

This is the plan of attack I have decided on.

I know that this will not be a national caliber car but it will still be fun to race.

I think I found my car, a 96 with a new motor and a fresh tranny. I know this isn't the 5.0 but it is new and I can swing the buy in.

Cody, beware of the 96-98 4.6's. They came with dog shit heads and you will be luck to get very north of 200hp.

Every 4.6 I have heard of (including Dave's old purple car) installed the newer PI heads (99-04) to get the power numbers.

I would hate for you to get the car with a new motor that still needs a lot of work to get the hp numbers.

 

I am confused, you guys have been telling me that a 95 cobra makes plenty of power, but that a 96 cobra doesn't? Huh Ford made less power with a newer car...cmon say it ain't so.

[TurboShortBus]

I am confused, you guys have been telling me that a 95 cobra makes plenty of power, but that a 96 cobra doesn't? Huh Ford made less power with a newer car...cmon say it ain't so.

Michael (TX#11CMC) was likely referring to the 1996-1998 2V/SOHC/GT engines, which were, indeed, dogshit.

 

Mark

[supermac]

I am confused, you guys have been telling me that a 95 cobra makes plenty of power, but that a 96 cobra doesn't? Huh Ford made less power with a newer car...cmon say it ain't so.

Michael (TX#11CMC) was likely referring to the 1996-1998 2V/SOHC/GT engines, which were, indeed, dogshit.

 

Mark

What are the downsides to consider with the cobra motor? Weight, complexity, reliability?

[JoeK]

I am confused, you guys have been telling me that a 95 cobra makes plenty of power, but that a 96 cobra doesn't? Huh Ford made less power with a newer car...cmon say it ain't so.

 

94/95 was the 5.0 pushrod

96 up is the 4.6L modular

Same for GT's and Cobras. Cobras had different heads and intakes though. Therfore a 96 GT will make less power than 95 Cobra.

 

94 to 98 was all the same body style called SN95

99 to 04 is the same body style called New Egde (or sometimes SN99)

94 to 04 is same chasis though.

 

This is why in my opinion, I'd get a good running 94/95 Cobra. You get the improved chasis over the Fox, you get the 5.0 engine, and the price should be cheap (relatively speaking).

 

What about those craigslist Scott posted up. They looked like some great options.

Edited July 27, 2011 by Guest