ShadowBolt Posted December 8, 2011 Share Posted December 8, 2011 Guys, lets not take things down the wrong path. No matter what, the Toyo contingency has increased by quite a bit. To use Texas as an example, in 2011 Texas CMC was elligible for $4,800. Using the new formula Texas CMC would've been elligible for $8,550 with 17% of the races in the 19+ category and 67% of the races in the 9-18 category. Thats twice as much money going to (likely) twice as many drivers. Not only that...our previous program encouraged many small classes. This program rewards fewer big classes (lets hear it for one CMC!) You dont have to be a fan of the fact that the guys in 6th-9th get nothing but the guys in 10th-14th do. Thats the program, and even if you dont like this you have to like the top five getting two to three times as much as they did this year if you have 19+ cars right? As for sandbagging in order to get those toyo bucks...I think that goes against the whole mentality of ammateur racing. We're here to race. If $50 in toyo bucks makes a difference just think how much money not running the race would save. That said, I would encourage you to offer your feedback directly to Jeremy Croisset, as he's the lead on the Toyo program for NASA. Sorry Al but you and/or Mr Croisset are dead wrong on this one. It's great that Toyo stepped up to the plate and is giving more money to us but this (skipping 6th through 9th) is just STUPID! At least that is MHO. You are not going to find 10 guys in the whole country that are going to like this deal. Racing or not if a guy finds himself in 9th at the end of a race he may try and drop back to get to the money positions. Hell the guy in tenth may block him to hold his paying position. I can't wait to see IRB's because some guy was blocking another to keep his lower money spot. I'm betting the person that came up with this idea used to work for Coke and thought New Coke was going to be the shitz. JJ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cmc35 Posted December 8, 2011 Share Posted December 8, 2011 Sorry Al but you and/or Mr Croisset are dead wrong on this one. It's great that Toyo stepped up to the plate and is giving more money to us but this (skipping 6th through 9th) is just STUPID! At least that is MHO. JJ Everyone is entitled to their opinion...some folks are going to love this program, some won't. If I find myself in 6th or 7th place in a race, my instinct is to move into 5th, not drop to 10th. -chris Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Al F. Posted December 8, 2011 Author Members Share Posted December 8, 2011 Jerry, dont misunderstand me, I'm not saying this is the best program one could imagine. I was first or second to point out in emails to directors that I was sure this payout deal was a typo! lol What I am saying is even if there are parts we dont like, on the whole it is TONS better than the outgoing program. Therefore, instead of being unhappy about what we dont like we should be happy and exicted about the good parts. Case in point, under this year's program you got $300. If we'd had the 2012 program you would've gotten $400. This is good, isnt it? Francis...I see it as just like waiting to tell an official about an illegal part on someone else's car until you're in the tech shed so they get a DQ instead of a warning. Taking advantage of a rule to another's detriment isnt good sportsmanship. If you park it early you're gaming the system and taking money away from another driver. Like I said, this may not be as good as playboy bunnies bringing you a bag of cash and a beer after the race, but its a bunch better than what we had. Oh...no word on regional championship payouts yet, sorry. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ShadowBolt Posted December 8, 2011 Share Posted December 8, 2011 Jerry, dont misunderstand me, I'm not saying this is the best program one could imagine. I was first or second to point out in emails to directors that I was sure this payout deal was a typo! lol What I am saying is even if there are parts we dont like, on the whole it is TONS better than the outgoing program. Therefore, instead of being unhappy about what we dont like we should be happy and exicted about the good parts. Case in point, under this year's program you got $300. If we'd had the 2012 program you would've gotten $400. This is good, isnt it? Francis...I see it as just like waiting to tell an official about an illegal part on someone else's car until you're in the tech shed so they get a DQ instead of a warning. Taking advantage of a rule to another's detriment isnt good sportsmanship. If you park it early you're gaming the system and taking money away from another driver. Like I said, this may not be as good as playboy bunnies bringing you a bag of cash and a beer after the race, but its a bunch better than what we had. Oh...no word on regional championship payouts yet, sorry. Assuming this is what Toyo brought us we should be happy with it......I agree with that. I assumed it was NASA that came up with the payout plan. I see all kinds of problems with it but I agree if it's the plan Toyo wanted us to run we have no choice really withut looking like we don't care about their wanting to give us more money. JJ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FBody383 Posted December 8, 2011 Share Posted December 8, 2011 Francis...I see it as just like waiting to tell an official about an illegal part on someone else's car until you're in the tech shed so they get a DQ instead of a warning. Taking advantage of a rule to another's detriment isnt good sportsmanship. So dynoing 260/310 and using those big fancy 4 piston brakes and 17" wheels is or isn't good sportsmanship? The difference here is EVERYBODY competing does know so it's NOT the same as withholding notice of a violation. It is simply an affirmative application of a subsidy in the governing ruleset. Emailed Jeremy this morning... we'll see. And don't call me Francis... or I'll... well something, I'll think of something. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Glenn Posted December 8, 2011 Share Posted December 8, 2011 I like how Toyo stepped up w/ better payouts. I want to go on record as someone who does not like rewarding folks who finish behind folks who get nothing. It's not like the payouts are 1st-14th and we are all pissed cause we want to take the payouts from 10th-14th and spread that amoung 1st-9th. We are upset that the payout SKIP's folks who performed better than those who are rewarded. It is just un-American. "We are only considering the top 5 and bottom 5 performers w/in the company for promotion. The rest of you that were in the middle - try harder or don't try at all if you want to be considered next year." F me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ShadowBolt Posted December 8, 2011 Share Posted December 8, 2011 (edited) "We are only considering the top 5 and bottom 5 performers w/in the company for promotion. The rest of you that were in the middle - try harder or don't try at all if you want to be considered next year." F me. Glenn, That was maybe the best quote ever posted on this site! Great job Glenn. This is what most people think but you said it better than the rest of us. JJ Edited December 9, 2011 by Guest Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dtisinger Posted December 9, 2011 Share Posted December 9, 2011 This is another attack on the middle class from the politicians !!! LOL Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ShadowBolt Posted December 9, 2011 Share Posted December 9, 2011 double post Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bluebandit48 Posted December 9, 2011 Share Posted December 9, 2011 It is just un-American. Lol Where is toyo made? Its like all the kids get a trophy after the t-ball game... except the ones that only did ok. Lol . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jdlingle Posted December 9, 2011 Share Posted December 9, 2011 I emailed Jeremy and Ryan Flaherty last night. I thanked them for working hard to get us more contingency money but asked them to consider having the payouts for large races go 1-10 instead of arbitrarily skipping the mid packers. There is an easy contact link on the NASA main page to put the message in. I hope all who agree with this line of thinking will take the time to do the same. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Glenn Posted December 9, 2011 Share Posted December 9, 2011 I cannot stress enough how important it is for you to contact NASA HQ directly on this issue. Some Directors are asking (telling) others that this is a done deal and to move on. I take this as meaning they are not willing to go to bat for you on this issue w/ NASA HQ on your behalf. In those cases, the only way your position will be represented is to let them know yourself. Be nice, state your opinion, and be professional about it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CF03GT Posted December 9, 2011 Share Posted December 9, 2011 Well this just sucks! How the heck are all the s197 guys going to pay for all their tires (we'll be burning thru a set each weekend) now that we'll all be relegated to mid pack finishers on our miata tires?!?! Thanks to Toyo for stepping up. But to leave a (big) hole in it, just dosent make any sense at all to me. I'll pass it on to HQ. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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