Adam Ginsberg Posted May 28, 2012 Share Posted May 28, 2012 I can tell everyone right now i will not run cmc at nationals just to be DQed. A car with Lexan quarter windows not only raced at the Nats, it won the 2010 National Championship. Even tho racers were upset about it (as well as not being told the driver had them in place), it was deemed a "non-performance enhancing modification". Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MHISSTC Posted May 30, 2012 Share Posted May 30, 2012 True. However, Adam, after what I consider to be a well publicized zero tolerance approach taken with the removal of the factory rear seat back bulkhead dating back at least two years, I'm unclear as to what you are trying to point out, encourage, or discourage here by bringing up the infamous Lexan window allowance? Discontinuity in rules interpretation and allowances? Suggestion of future rules changes? Go ahead and run at Nationals because you have nothing to worry about because "no protest" = "legal"? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bluebandit48 Posted May 30, 2012 Share Posted May 30, 2012 I am not going to even touch the quarter window replacement. I still think that is stupid. IMO Can someone please tell me, Why it is necessary to keep the stock package tray and seat mounts? No performance advantage. No weight advantage when a fabricated bulk head has been installed (which mine has) No cost, I had to cover the thing anyways for my fuel cell It doesn't really have any structure. if you are worried about someone copping what I did and then causing a problem, I'll make a sticker that says... DO NOT COPY! CALL AL FIRST. AND.... the rules say I can remove any unused brackets.. so I did. 7.8.7 Other than the stock dash, all other interior parts and panels, including all passenger seats may be removed. Undercoating may be removed. Floor mats, spare tire, tools, jacks, etc. must be removed. There must be no remaining sharp edges that could come in contact with the driver. Other than to provide for the installation of required safety equipment or other authorized modifications, no other driver/passenger compartment alterations or gutting is permitted. I did not gut, I removed pieces to install required safety equipment per CCR rules. I believe that a bulk head would be considered safety equipment. I didn't have to remove it to install my bulkhead, but it gives it a better cleaner look. Todd, I know what you ment, I am just a bit frustrated.. Sorry.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Al F. Posted May 30, 2012 Members Share Posted May 30, 2012 Rob, I can simpathise with your opinion and perspective. We've had discussions exactly the same as this over and over. CMC is neither "spec" nor open and any time you draw a line in the sand you can argue night and day about why exactly the line is here and not there. In this case the line is that the bulkhead in question stays in the car. If we changed the line every time someone went over it, every driver would have to be continually modifying their car to keep up, which is not ok. If we made a permanent exemption for every driver that went over any line we might as well change the title of the rules book to suggestion book. The right answer is to fix the car that's over the line and look for the least inconvenient and least expensive way to do so that doesnt negatively affect other cars. I think we're being as flexible as possible in that regard. Neither the CMC book nor the CCR are perfect, nothing covering such topics is. That is why we have forums and regional directors; to give drivers the opportunity to ask before they cut/buy/otherwise do something that they later find out to be non-kosher. That is also why we ask for suggestions to edit the rules formally every year. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bluebandit48 Posted May 30, 2012 Share Posted May 30, 2012 Okay, How hacked up can it be and still be legal.... i have to close it off per ccr. Can i get away with just putting the package tray back in and leave off the sides? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bluebandit48 Posted May 30, 2012 Share Posted May 30, 2012 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spencer Posted May 31, 2012 Author Share Posted May 31, 2012 I guess I will leave the lower unused portion as is in based on all this (outlined in black). I still have the piece that I cut out as well (Outlined in Red) which I can spot weld back in. It would still be notched out where the cage passes through. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Al F. Posted May 31, 2012 Members Share Posted May 31, 2012 Spencer: notching is perfectly ok, complete removal no. Notch as needed and put the piece back and you'll be perfect. Rob: its really hard to see in those little pictures. Work with Todd and come up with a reasonable time frame to get it good and put it in writting in your log book. Doesnt have to be by next event, I would think six months, beginning of next year type of time frame. If you havent found a local guy gutting a car for parts or a guy on a forum thats doing the same as a source I'd be surprised. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bluebandit48 Posted June 15, 2012 Share Posted June 15, 2012 Blew out a mustang at a junk yard.. brought a tear to my eye. Here is the bastard part! Im trying to document everything to make sure everyone knows i put it back in! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DrC Posted June 26, 2012 Share Posted June 26, 2012 This is what I did after the cutting. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spencer Posted July 18, 2012 Author Share Posted July 18, 2012 I have another related question. Is it legal to notch out some of the roof sheet metal to allow the Rollcage tubing to be tucked in tighter to the roof line? This would be a small area between the main hoop and a-pillar. This would provide more space between the tubing and my head. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Glenn Posted July 18, 2012 Share Posted July 18, 2012 From the NASA CCR (where CMC gets its rules for cage installs). Take note of the bold area. Seems cutting is not allowed by the fact that it is not stated that you can. 15.6.16 Tube Structure Design / Body Tubes may touch the body in any place (not to violate CCR section #15.6.20 Inspection), but shall not be attached anywhere except as permitted by CCR Section #15.6.11.A Rear Braces - Exceptions. No deformation of the interior body panels is permitted, except that the horizontal part of the sheet metal (next to the driver’s and/or passenger’s head) between the top of the “B†pillar and the top of the “A†pillar, may be pushed in to accommodate the roll cage. The intent of this allowed deformation is strictly to allow for more headroom for the driver and/or passenger. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spencer Posted July 18, 2012 Author Share Posted July 18, 2012 Thanks for that, so I can push in the sheet metal from the A to B pillars to create more room. I guess thats what I will do, cutting would of been much easier though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Al F. Posted July 26, 2012 Members Share Posted July 26, 2012 How tall are you and what chassis is it? I would recommend not doing that unless you absolutely have to. The contrails are a structural member and you'll be weakening it by deforming it that way. It may not amount to a huge amount, but every little bit helps... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spencer Posted July 31, 2012 Author Share Posted July 31, 2012 I'm 6'2 and this is for a sn99 mustang. It was suggested to me to cut and push in the area without removing metal. Thoughts? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bluebandit48 Posted July 31, 2012 Share Posted July 31, 2012 Im 6'3", in a sn95, I chopped my seat brackets, made new seat mounts basically sitting on the floor. That worked for me, the top of my helmet is just under the bar. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spencer Posted July 31, 2012 Author Share Posted July 31, 2012 I fabricated seat brackets for the car, they are as low as they can go for where the seat is positioned. I would like to have as much clearence between my head and the tubing as possible thats why I would like to cut that area. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Al F. Posted August 2, 2012 Members Share Posted August 2, 2012 I can understand. Different seats have different thicknesses. Sheet metal seats allow you to essentially sit on the floor. Also the rake of the seat (how vertical your back is) will impact how high your head ends up. Just food for thought. Also, we're really talking side to side clearance not vertical clearance right? That being the case you'll want to look at how far to the right you can push the seat. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spencer Posted August 2, 2012 Author Share Posted August 2, 2012 The seat is a Racetech containment seat so yes it will have more thickness to it than a kirkley or something similar. Cant go any more right with it either, the trans tunnel limits that. I want to make sure I am not going to bang my head against the bar, it looks possible if I dont make some extra room even with the containment seat limiting the side to side travel of my head. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bluebandit48 Posted August 2, 2012 Share Posted August 2, 2012 Good point Al, I have a little gangster lean in my seat. Make it a convertible! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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