suck fumes1548534743 Posted September 15, 2012 Share Posted September 15, 2012 I'm not trying to imply that I condone contact and I def avoid it at all costs. All in saying is if I'm at the national championship trying to make a pass and have thousands of dollars of contingency money on the line things happen. If you watch the beginning of that video the musang intentionally tries to run him off the track on the straightaway!!! I just don't see how that kind of driving just deserves a "talking to". People spend a lot of money to go to nationals and when someone is driving like a moron and not giving the other guy any room to make a pass that's uncalled for. Like I said though I would never try to hurt or wreck anyone on purpose but if you got your nose parallel to his door and they come over you have the right to stay in the gas according to the NASA rules. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MHISSTC Posted September 16, 2012 Share Posted September 16, 2012 ...thousands of dollars of contingency money on the line... I wish. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
suck fumes1548534743 Posted September 16, 2012 Share Posted September 16, 2012 Maximum Motorsports was giving away $2500 to the winner and various other vendors gave away stuff. Shoot royal purple was giving away a $2,000 suit to the winner. Plenty of good prizes! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MHISSTC Posted September 16, 2012 Share Posted September 16, 2012 Well then, I guess contingencies have drastically improved since 2010 when I got 100 Toyo bucks for 3rd. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adam Ginsberg Posted September 16, 2012 Share Posted September 16, 2012 Well then, I guess contingencies have drastically improved since 2010 when I got 100 Toyo bucks for 3rd. The problem at the 2010 Nats was car count. Since there were 10 CMC cars at Mid-Ohio, it increased the contingency money considerably. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BADVENM Posted September 16, 2012 Share Posted September 16, 2012 Plus we had cmc-1 and cmc-2 vs one group. Didnt that impact contingencies? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rleng11548534736 Posted September 16, 2012 Share Posted September 16, 2012 Suck fumes does have a point. With everything on the line at Nats. More than a good talking to is warranted. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mitchntx1548534714 Posted September 16, 2012 Share Posted September 16, 2012 Suck fumes does have a point. With everything on the line at Nats. More than a good talking to is warranted. Oh no ... this is just a friendly, grass roots series. All in saying is if I'm at the national championship trying to make a pass and have thousands of dollars of contingency money on the line things happen. I stand corrected. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DrC Posted September 16, 2012 Share Posted September 16, 2012 One video and a lot of talk - would like to see more videos. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Glenn Posted September 16, 2012 Share Posted September 16, 2012 One video and a lot of talk - would like to see more videos. Yes. More vids please. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Glenn Posted September 16, 2012 Share Posted September 16, 2012 While we wait...... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
suck fumes1548534743 Posted September 16, 2012 Share Posted September 16, 2012 Glad everyone is entertained lol!!! Not trying to start a war here just trying to point out things that should be addressed in the future. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
supermac Posted September 16, 2012 Share Posted September 16, 2012 It is really glicthy when I watch it. This hasn't happened to me before and I haven't done that many of these Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wastntim Posted September 17, 2012 Share Posted September 17, 2012 It is really glicthy when I watch it. This hasn't happened to me before and I haven't done that many of these Psychadellic but appreciated. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Al F. Posted September 17, 2012 Members Share Posted September 17, 2012 Glad everyone is entertained lol!!! Not trying to start a war here just trying to point out things that should be addressed in the future. Nothing to address in the future, it was addressed at the time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CMC#11 Posted September 17, 2012 Share Posted September 17, 2012 Was it decided to allow to go to the left of the blend line in T1 on the start? I know in previous National events at Mid-O that was not allowed but curious if that was changed for this year. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Glenn Posted September 17, 2012 Share Posted September 17, 2012 Was it decided to allow to go to the left of the blend line in T1 on the start?I know in previous National events at Mid-O that was not allowed but curious if that was changed for this year. I thought the same thing. That was DQ at one point along the lines. I just can't recall if it was for the start or not. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Al F. Posted September 17, 2012 Members Share Posted September 17, 2012 That is an excellent point Michael. It was not discussed during any of our driver meetings. Bob pointed it out to me after the main event, at which time of course its too late for me to do anything about it. If a section of paved surface is going to be auto-DQ it has to be clearly discussed during drivers meetings. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
D Algozine Posted September 17, 2012 Share Posted September 17, 2012 That is an excellent point Michael. It was not discussed during any of our driver meetings. Bob pointed it out to me after the main event, at which time of course its too late for me to do anything about it. If a section of paved surface is going to be auto-DQ it has to be clearly discussed during drivers meetings. I cant believe that any licensed NASA driver needs to be told in a meeting not to use pit lane for racing. It is especially clear at that track. If thats the case, turn one can safely be taken during the race at speed by jumping the curb and diving all the way down. No it can't, because everyone knows the other side of that curb is pit lane. I watched the video, I saw text book blocking, three times down the back stragiht. You get one move. Read the rules. Bob was impeded by a weaving car. You can't safely pull along side of a weaving car. Thats why its a rule. Yes you can weave down the track, just not when someone is trying to pass you. If Chris wasn't penalized, then why would you need to talk to him? He didn't inadvertently float back over to the middle one time. It happened at least three times. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Al F. Posted September 17, 2012 Members Share Posted September 17, 2012 One topic at a time. blocking Since you said you saw blocking three times, please do us the favor of identifying each "move" using Dereck's video by the second mark. Keep in mind that the back straight is not a straight, it includes a big kink. It is expected that a driver would come out of the keyhole all the way drivers left, then jog all the way drivers right through the kink, then back all of the way drivers left in preparation for the upcoming right hand turn. Normally, blocking entails the following car moving away from the preferred line in order to initiate a pass. The "block" is the leading car also moving away from the preferred line. Imagine two cars approaching a right hand turn from all the way driver's left. Following car moves over a car width and is gaining. Leading car moves over a car width (move 1). Following car moves back left and leading car responds by also moving back left (move 2). Once the cars rotate towards the apex, the block counter drops to 0. Blocking in the middle of a corner, or when both drivers are moving towards the preferred line...much more difficult. But hey, I could've been wrong. Thats what RFAs and appeals are for. Use of pit lane It isnt pit lane, its a blend line intended to ensure cars coming out of the pits are safe. There is no one coming out of the pits. Definition of "racing surface" or "track" is dependent on the track and the run group. Again, I could've been wrong, which is what RFAs and appeals are for. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
D Algozine Posted September 17, 2012 Share Posted September 17, 2012 One topic at a time.blocking Since you said you saw blocking three times, please do us the favor of identifying each "move" using Dereck's video by the second mark. Keep in mind that the back straight is not a straight, it includes a big kink. It is expected that a driver would come out of the keyhole all the way drivers left, then jog all the way drivers right through the kink, then back all of the way drivers left in preparation for the upcoming right hand turn. Normally, blocking entails the following car moving away from the preferred line in order to initiate a pass. The "block" is the leading car also moving away from the preferred line. Imagine two cars approaching a right hand turn from all the way driver's left. Following car moves over a car width and is gaining. Leading car moves over a car width (move 1). Following car moves back left and leading car responds by also moving back left (move 2). Once the cars rotate towards the apex, the block counter drops to 0. Blocking in the middle of a corner, or when both drivers are moving towards the preferred line...much more difficult. But hey, I could've been wrong. Thats what RFAs and appeals are for. Use of pit lane It isnt pit lane, its a blend line intended to ensure cars coming out of the pits are safe. There is no one coming out of the pits. Definition of "racing surface" or "track" is dependent on the track and the run group. Again, I could've been wrong, which is what RFAs and appeals are for. Al, Response is appreciated. I would be happy to continue the discussion, but I wouldn't imagine it would be productive. Short response, After the kink and before the apex, Bob moved right, Chris moved right, Bob moved left, Chris moved left. Chris's first move off center was to the right to stop the pass, which established the inside line, but then he moved back to the middle, when Bob went left. It happened three times, the last one was the worse. A blend line with a curb ??? The left of the curb is pit lane, the right is the track. So, if not specifically told not to, racing is permitted to the left of the curb? I'm not aware of any other curbs that don't represent the edge of the track, anywhere in the world? regardless of the start or middle of a race. Someone may have been starting the race from pit lane. Your judgement is the only one that counted, and I agree, there should have been some appeals. I'm saying I think you were wrong on both accounts. If others that were in the race felt the same, they should have appealed, and I think some of those guys realize that know. There is a perception that by appealing either on track or in the tech shed that a racer will be labeled a whiner. It is part of the rule process and should be exercised, but in the same sense calls need to be made regardless of anyone logging an appeal, even if they are hard and nasty calls. Anyone with there head on straight knows that officiating a race is difficult and the nationals ramps up the level even higher. Very difficult job. My personal experience, I have not been nearly satisfied with many of the calls through the years at the National championship races. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Glenn Posted September 17, 2012 Share Posted September 17, 2012 Dave - You have to realize, there may not have been any protests filed. One year a Race Director wanted to DQ me, but the guy would not file the paperwork. Sometimes there is little that a Race Director can do. If the participants don't have an issue w/ it to the point of not filling out a protest form, then why should the RD act? Remember, the RD may have not seen it w/ his own eyes. We can "armchair QB" this all day long. It is done. Some fault was accepted on all parts (from the racers down to the RD). Not sure what else there is to learn from here forward. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
D Algozine Posted September 17, 2012 Share Posted September 17, 2012 I would be happy to continue the discussion, but I wouldn't imagine it would be productive. Your judgement is the only one that counted, and I agree, there should have been some appeals. I'm saying I think you were wrong on both accounts. If others that were in the race felt the same, they should have appealed, and I think some of those guys realize that know. There is a perception that by appealing either on track or in the tech shed that a racer will be labeled a whiner. It is part of the rule process and should be exercised, but in the same sense calls need to be made regardless of anyone logging an appeal, even if they are hard and nasty calls. If I'm not mistaken Mid-o has its own on track video of "key" areas on the track, which is used to review / officiate the race. See my previous statement above, instead of repeating myself. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wastntim Posted September 18, 2012 Share Posted September 18, 2012 If a section of paved surface is going to be auto-DQ it has to be clearly discussed during drivers meetings. Under this rationale if I chose to start the race from the pit lane it would be acceptable as long as it wasn't discussed during the drivers meeting. I have been to many races and starting a race from pit lane has never been discussed, therefore, it must be acceptable, unless I was starting from the rear of the field. Clearly, I don't think this would be acceptable and I would surmise would lead to a automatic DQ. "It isnt pit lane, its a blend line intended to ensure cars coming out of the pits are safe. There is no one coming out of the pits. Definition of "racing surface" or "track" is dependent on the track and the run group. " Where by definition does the pit lane end? By your definition, the pit lane ends at the end of the pit wall? By my definition, the blend line separates the racing surface or track from the exit of the pits and in my experience, the blend line is deemed off limits unless we are told otherwise. I would think any race official would demand this interpretation or risk the safety and possible the lives of the racers. As Dave said, where have you ever seen curbing that is in the middle of the racing surface? Under your interpretation, Mid O has a curb that is located in the middle of the racing surface. I also agree with Dave that most of the racer's don't want CMC to become a group that regularly has to bring "formal protests". I would hope that the matters could be brought to the attention of the race director, along with video, and that the race director would apply the rules, no matter what the outcome or the uncomfortable situation it might cause. This being said, I wasn't at the track and my knowledge of the events is all second hand. I do not envy the responsibility of any race director nor the difficult decisions that they have to make. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Al F. Posted September 18, 2012 Members Share Posted September 18, 2012 Robert, I dont know where in this you see evidence that CMC is anything other than a series where open discussion and adherence to the rules is king. The difference is we dont agree. Reasonable men can agree to disagree. Your definition of the end of pit lane is the end of the blend line. Mine is the end of the wall for the guys already on track. Thats why clarity during drivers meetings is so important. Again, every time I've been RD of a group and a section of paved surface is auto penalty its been brought up clearly during our meetings. In this case, Bob (or anyone else in the group) didnt have to agree with me. They could've submitted an RFA forcing a formal decision and then appealed that if they didnt agree with that. Never be afraid to use the decision review process, its there for good reason! As it stands, Bob and I discussed it, we even walked out onto the track to stand exactly where the cars were!! I told him I felt that I couldnt penalize Chris because we hadnt gone through it during our meetings and there is nothing in NASA's CCR that defines "racing surface" or "marked course". In the case of ambiguity the decision (always) goes in favor of the driver facing the penalty. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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