MHISSTC Posted October 24, 2012 Share Posted October 24, 2012 This is one of the RCRs that was combined with a few others in another thread, but I put it here also so folks could comment on it individually if they desired. We wanted to include the ability to use aftermarket diff covers that included machined, cast, or modified units that included drain and fill plugs, but specifically excluded units designed to strengthen the third member. Since most of those units are $$$, it was agreed that the best thing to submit was a RCR that allowed fill/drain plugs to be added to OEM type differential covers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Glenn Posted October 24, 2012 Share Posted October 24, 2012 One thing to keep in mind is a thick aluminum cast cover will add some increase in housing rigidity. I don't for a second think its needed. W/ the OEM stamped unit, there is not much material to work w/ to install something from the inside like there would be w/ the cast aluminum unit. From a policing the rules POV, the stamped one is easier to visually check. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smike Posted October 25, 2012 Share Posted October 25, 2012 But is housing rigidity the issue here? How many of us have blown rear housings? Benefit of changing diff fluid via plug over taking the cover off and new gasket every time is the real question. How about a list of approved diff covers? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Glenn Posted October 25, 2012 Share Posted October 25, 2012 But is housing rigidity the issue here? How many of us have blown rear housings? Benefit of changing diff fluid via plug over taking the cover off and new gasket every time is the real question. How about a list of approved diff covers? The RCR was modified (w/ the agreement of the one submitting it) to allow in writting (been allowed in the past w/out issue) what the end result of the original RCR was after - easy fill/drain. The reason for the modification to the RCR was, no chance for the cast covers to be allowed. This comes up alot and mostly from newer drivers. It isn't going to happen cause it just is not needed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MHISSTC Posted October 25, 2012 Author Share Posted October 25, 2012 (edited) I'd really like to have the OEM Ford BOSS 302 unit as modified by Steeda to include a set of drain and fill plugs, but at $140, the price tag is a bit much. It also goes beyond the intent of allowing drain and fill plugs because the fins provide passive cooling and strengthens the diff housing. The RCR, as submitted, allows you to have a differential cover similar to the ones at Purple Cranium. If you get all the options including a magnetic drain plug and a magnetic fill plug, candy powder coating, a set of stainless fasteners, and a new gasket or RTV, the price maxes out at $97. A basic chrome cover from the same folks with a single non-magnetic drain is $42. Edited October 25, 2012 by Guest Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Den341548534727 Posted October 25, 2012 Share Posted October 25, 2012 Can you put a drain plug on a 9 inch? I think it would be hilarious to see someone get DQed cause they have a drain plug on a 9inch housing.....irony at its best! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MHISSTC Posted October 25, 2012 Author Share Posted October 25, 2012 Is the drain plug OEM or add-on for the 9"? I don't think anyone should plan on building a new CMC car with a 9" housing, with or without drain/fill plugs. I believe the 9" housing was specifically allowed in the rules to allow SCCA A-Sedan cars an opportunity to transition over to CMC without requiring them to ditch the 9" they already had. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
D Algozine Posted October 25, 2012 Share Posted October 25, 2012 Can you put a drain plug on a 9 inch? I think it would be hilarious to see someone get DQed cause they have a drain plug on a 9inch housing.....irony at its best! Pretty ironic. The rules allow a 9" and other rear ends, and they should, but an aluminum cover is just too much. I really need to hear the logic. You can spend $ 2,500 on a rear end, but not $150 on a cover. Why would it matter what type of cover is on a rear end, even the ones with the retaining bolts. If they help hold the rear end together, then isn't that inexpensive insurance, as is the aluminum covers that help dissipate heat. Don't want it on your car, don't put it on your car. No performance advantage. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MHISSTC Posted October 25, 2012 Author Share Posted October 25, 2012 Maybe it's time to remove the Ford 9" allowance? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Den341548534727 Posted October 25, 2012 Share Posted October 25, 2012 Pretty ironic. The rules allow a 9" and other rear ends, and they should, but an aluminum cover is just too much. I really need to hear the logic. You can spend $ 2,500 on a rear end, but not $150 on a cover. Why would it matter what type of cover is on a rear end, even the ones with the retaining bolts. If they help hold the rear end together, then isn't that inexpensive insurance, as is the aluminum covers that help dissipate heat. Don't want it on your car, don't put it on your car. No performance advantage Now Dave you are just clouding the issue with facts! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
D Algozine Posted October 25, 2012 Share Posted October 25, 2012 Maybe it's time to remove the Ford 9" allowance? Then do you get rid of the GM 12 bolt and Dana 44? Is it only stock rear ends with only stock diff's and stock gears and stock covers? What is wrong with spending a little money up front to save money and time in the long run. How much time, money, and effort goes into making it to a race weekend? Only to have an unnecessary part break. Which is such a huge waste of money and time. Or how many stock parts do you need to have as spares to back up, said part. That doesn't sound very logical. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Glenn Posted October 25, 2012 Share Posted October 25, 2012 I'd really like to have the OEM Ford BOSS 302 unit as modified by Steeda to include a set of drain and fill plugs, but at $140, the price tag is a bit much. It also goes beyond the intent of allowing drain and fill plugs because the fins provide passive cooling and strengthens the diff housing. The RCR, as submitted, allows you to have a differential cover similar to the ones at Purple Cranium. If you get all the options including a magnetic drain plug and a magnetic fill plug, candy powder coating, a set of stainless fasteners, and a new gasket or RTV, the price maxes out at $97. A basic chrome cover from the same folks with a single non-magnetic drain is $42. Unless your car came from the OEM w/ an aluminum cover, its not past the intent, it's flat out illegal. Buy a stamped steel replacment, weld a drain plug kit (look for auto trans drain plug kits) and weld 2 of them on and paint as needed. Go have it chromed if you need the bling. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Glenn Posted October 25, 2012 Share Posted October 25, 2012 Can you put a drain plug on a 9 inch? I think it would be hilarious to see someone get DQed cause they have a drain plug on a 9inch housing.....irony at its best! Pretty ironic. The rules allow a 9" and other rear ends, and they should, but an aluminum cover is just too much. I really need to hear the logic. You can spend $ 2,500 on a rear end, but not $150 on a cover. Why would it matter what type of cover is on a rear end, even the ones with the retaining bolts. If they help hold the rear end together, then isn't that inexpensive insurance, as is the aluminum covers that help dissipate heat. Don't want it on your car, don't put it on your car. No performance advantage. Man I have the rear axle rules!!!! History. In order to help build the class, some stuff was allowed that was common on old A sedan cars. 3rd gens and Fox's were likely falling out of favor about the time CMC was getting started. Most entry level A sedan cars were a perfect fit for CMC and would help to get the series off the ground. Allowances were made. Fast forward to 2005 when I started w/ CMC. I explaind to the Directors at the time that one could sell the 9" or 12 bolt set-up as a 100% bolt-in (as required by our rules since none of the chassis pick-up points can be modified) and buy a couple OEM diff and have cash left over. It was a win win from my POV since it got us back to OEM diffs and put cash in folks pockets. There is a huge market for those diffes w/ the drag racers. No sale. The downside to the 9" and 12 bolt is the added gear selection available. I could have a 3.42 GM 10 bolt for 1 track, a 3.55 8.8 Ford for another, and a 9" w/ 3.90's for another. There is alot of potential for spending here if one wanted to max out this area of the rules. Obviuosly spending alot of money doing along w/ alot of testing. If it was up to me, OEM axles only. That would be 8.8's, 10 bolts and the 3rd gens wierd ass 9 bolt?. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Glenn Posted October 25, 2012 Share Posted October 25, 2012 Maybe it's time to remove the Ford 9" allowance? Then do you get rid of the GM 12 bolt and Dana 44? Is it only stock rear ends with only stock diff's and stock gears and stock covers? What is wrong with spending a little money up front to save money and time in the long run. How much time, money, and effort goes into making it to a race weekend? Only to have an unnecessary part break. Which is such a huge waste of money and time. Or how many stock parts do you need to have as spares to back up, said part. That doesn't sound very logical. Yes!!!!!! ANd I cannot recall the last diff failure I have seen in CMC (even w/ standing starts) that was related to HP. If your breaking axles, find a new guy to put your shit together. I have the very same axle, diff and gears in my car that was installed in it in 2004. 3:42's and a T2R. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MHISSTC Posted October 25, 2012 Author Share Posted October 25, 2012 Are we finished attracting A-Sedan cars with beefier rears? I seriously can't think of anyone running a Ford 9". How many are running the GM 12 bolt and Dana 44? I'm all for going back to OEM third members. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Glenn Posted October 25, 2012 Share Posted October 25, 2012 Are we finished attracting A-Sedan cars with beefier rears? I seriously can't think of anyone running a Ford 9". How many are running the GM 12 bolt and Dana 44? I'm all for going back to OEM third members. Sounds like RCR time! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MHISSTC Posted October 25, 2012 Author Share Posted October 25, 2012 Sounds like RCR time! Somebody else besides us better take that one. I think we've surpassed our quota for this year, and maybe next year too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
D Algozine Posted October 25, 2012 Share Posted October 25, 2012 (edited) Maybe it's time to remove the Ford 9" allowance? Then do you get rid of the GM 12 bolt and Dana 44? Is it only stock rear ends with only stock diff's and stock gears and stock covers? What is wrong with spending a little money up front to save money and time in the long run. How much time, money, and effort goes into making it to a race weekend? Only to have an unnecessary part break. Which is such a huge waste of money and time. Or how many stock parts do you need to have as spares to back up, said part. That doesn't sound very logical. Yes!!!!!! ANd I cannot recall the last diff failure I have seen in CMC (even w/ standing starts) that was related to HP. If your breaking axles, find a new guy to put your shit together. I have the very same axle, diff and gears in my car that was installed in it in 2004. 3:42's and a T2R. Not the case in locations where tracks freeze. Bumpy tracks are killer on rear ends, and we have a bunch of bumpy tracks. A lot of GM racers up north carry an extra rear end in there trucks. Pretty typical for at least 1 or 2 GM rear failures per season (per the cmc race group) . The ford 8.8 is pretty tough but the 10 bolt does not hold up to the bumps. And its typically the ring gears that go. Edit : in bold above Edited October 25, 2012 by Guest Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
D Algozine Posted October 25, 2012 Share Posted October 25, 2012 Fast forward to 2005 when I started w/ CMC. I explaind to the Directors at the time that one could sell the 9" or 12 bolt set-up as a 100% bolt-in (as required by our rules since none of the chassis pick-up points can be modified) and buy a couple OEM diff and have cash left over. It was a win win from my POV since it got us back to OEM diffs and put cash in folks pockets. There is a huge market for those diffes w/ the drag racers. No sale. Again, what about the DNF and lost time racing for the broken parts. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
D Algozine Posted October 25, 2012 Share Posted October 25, 2012 Regardless of the type of legal rear end you put in your car. If you have gone to the time and effort to assemble a good, solid rear end, why not allow a simple cover on the rear that aids in general maintenance (drains) and/or helps keep it cooler (aluminum, finned), which will add to the life of the rear. If it's a cost issue, then just do a half day of testing, instead of a full day, that will more then pay for the cost of the cover. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Glenn Posted October 25, 2012 Share Posted October 25, 2012 Sounds like RCR time! Somebody else besides us better take that one. I think we've surpassed our quota for this year, and maybe next year too. And a fine job you did at that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Glenn Posted October 25, 2012 Share Posted October 25, 2012 Fast forward to 2005 when I started w/ CMC. I explaind to the Directors at the time that one could sell the 9" or 12 bolt set-up as a 100% bolt-in (as required by our rules since none of the chassis pick-up points can be modified) and buy a couple OEM diff and have cash left over. It was a win win from my POV since it got us back to OEM diffs and put cash in folks pockets. There is a huge market for those diffes w/ the drag racers. No sale. Again, what about the DNF and lost time racing for the broken parts. I don't see those problems here in TX. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Glenn Posted October 25, 2012 Share Posted October 25, 2012 Regardless of the type of legal rear end you put in your car. If you have gone to the time and effort to assemble a good, solid rear end, why not allow a simple cover on the rear that aids in general maintenance (drains) and/or helps keep it cooler (aluminum, finned), which will add to the life of the rear.If it's a cost issue, then just do a half day of testing, instead of a full day, that will more then pay for the cost of the cover. We we allow all the things that only cost a day of testing or a weekend on track, none of us would race. We would all be home buying parts for cars that never take the track so we can have all the things you seem to be able to justify in one way or another. If you were in charge of CMC, where would the line be drawn? AI? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
soundguydave1548534741 Posted October 25, 2012 Share Posted October 25, 2012 Regardless of the type of legal rear end you put in your car. If you have gone to the time and effort to assemble a good, solid rear end, why not allow a simple cover on the rear that aids in general maintenance (drains) and/or helps keep it cooler (aluminum, finned), which will add to the life of the rear.If it's a cost issue, then just do a half day of testing, instead of a full day, that will more then pay for the cost of the cover. We we allow all the things that only cost a day of testing or a weekend on track, none of us would race. We would all be home buying parts for cars that never take the track so we can have all the things you seem to be able to justify in one way or another. If you were in charge of CMC, where would the line be drawn? AI? I dunno, Glenn, but I think there's just a wee bit of room between Neo-Luddism and American Iron, though, don't you? We can't add a $150 diff cover (who cares if it cools more effectively; that's preventive medicine, not 1/2 second off the lap time!), yet we can jump the shock cost cap by $400? We're splitting hairs over $260 coilover sleeves, but can legally use a $6000 race transmission? Honestly, given the amount of power and torque we're allowed to produce, and with the grip levels we see with the Toyo rubber, NONE of us is in danger of twisting a differential housing. If somebody wants to put on an aftermarket, stud-supported aluminum cover with both fill and (gasp!) drain plugs, I say let them. We all know there's no performance advantage, and certainly no weight savings, so what's the point in pushing back against it? That it gets away from the "stock" concept of CMC? Fine, then lower the shock cap to, say, Monroe Sensa-Trac money, or restrict caliper and rotor choice to OE only. In a lot of ways, our rule set is like putting a NASCAR-style speedway cam in an otherwise stock engine, and then wondering why it all came apart when we hit 9200rpm. I don't think a bit more "aftermarket replacement" and a little bit less "junkyard" is going to hurt the series, if it's applied sanely. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bluebandit48 Posted October 25, 2012 Share Posted October 25, 2012 Fine, then lower the shock cap to, say, Monroe Sensa-Trac money, or restrict caliper and rotor choice to OE only. . I am game!! oh wait.. that is where I am at now!! lol!!! I agree with the rest of that though! whats an extra 50 bucks for a fancy cover over my spray painted chrome cover! looks more like aluminum paint after a few races.. lost its shine Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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