camaro_1le Posted December 6, 2012 Share Posted December 6, 2012 Patience. Remember 3 years ago this was brought up for the very reasons listed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sidney Posted December 6, 2012 Share Posted December 6, 2012 The 5.3 is being evaluated in due course. Its painfully long for those wanting to pull the trigger I guess, but its better than jumping off the cliff and then thinking about whether or not we needed a parachute. I'm not worried about peak power, I am worried about area under the curve however. I'm also worried about other details, all of which will need to be flushed out. Patience. Only thing I would add here is that once it's built and dyno'd...make the yea or nea decision then. DO NOT ALLOW BOB DENTON ON THE TRACK WITH A FRESH 4TH GEN AND A 5.3 BEFORE IT'S APPROVED! He about won Nationals in a worn out 3rd gen on 16's and you give him a fresh 4th gen and he's going to be even faster regardless what motor is in it. If you don't approve this motor before he's allowed to race it...forget it. You all know who's going to say "See I told you it was a class killer". Sidney Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ls168camaro Posted December 6, 2012 Share Posted December 6, 2012 [Only thing I would add here is that once it's built and dyno'd...make the yea or nea decision then. DO NOT ALLOW BOB DENTON ON THE TRACK WITH A FRESH 4TH GEN AND A 5.3 BEFORE IT'S APPROVED! He about won Nationals in a worn out 3rd gen on 16's and you give him a fresh 4th gen and he's going to be even faster regardless what motor is in it. If you don't approve this motor before he's allowed to race it...forget it. You all know who's going to say "See I told you it was a class killer". Sidney Don't see why you think it's such a class killer and different than a regular LS1. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
D Algozine Posted December 6, 2012 Share Posted December 6, 2012 I sold out while I could and taking a wait and see position before I decide to move forward or move on. Honestly, what rule changes in the last few yeasrs where so significant that you decided to take this position? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mitchntx1548534714 Posted December 7, 2012 Share Posted December 7, 2012 I sold out while I could and taking a wait and see position before I decide to move forward or move on. Honestly, what rule changes in the last few yeasrs where so significant that you decided to take this position? Jumping off the cliff and making wholesale changes to a 1/2 dozen existing platforms in order to accommodate one ... an unevaluated one ... the S197. And now the back pedalling ... I mean ... evaluation. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sidney Posted December 7, 2012 Share Posted December 7, 2012 [Only thing I would add here is that once it's built and dyno'd...make the yea or nea decision then. DO NOT ALLOW BOB DENTON ON THE TRACK WITH A FRESH 4TH GEN AND A 5.3 BEFORE IT'S APPROVED! He about won Nationals in a worn out 3rd gen on 16's and you give him a fresh 4th gen and he's going to be even faster regardless what motor is in it. If you don't approve this motor before he's allowed to race it...forget it. You all know who's going to say "See I told you it was a class killer". Sidney Don't see why you think it's such a class killer and different than a regular LS1. BryanL, You missed my point as I don't think the 5.3 will be a class killer. What's going to be a class killer is Bob Denton in a new 4th gen regardless what motor he puts in it. If they wait until after he races his new Firebird and is considerably faster than he has been with his POS 3rd gen...the nansayers are going to credit the 5.3 motor and not the 4th gen chassis. You understand now? Sidney Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wastntim Posted December 7, 2012 Share Posted December 7, 2012 [Only thing I would add here is that once it's built and dyno'd...make the yea or nea decision then. DO NOT ALLOW BOB DENTON ON THE TRACK WITH A FRESH 4TH GEN AND A 5.3 BEFORE IT'S APPROVED! He about won Nationals in a worn out 3rd gen on 16's and you give him a fresh 4th gen and he's going to be even faster regardless what motor is in it. If you don't approve this motor before he's allowed to race it...forget it. You all know who's going to say "See I told you it was a class killer". Sidney Don't see why you think it's such a class killer and different than a regular LS1. BryanL, You missed my point as I don't think the 5.3 will be a class killer. What's going to be a class killer is Bob Denton in a new 4th gen regardless what motor he puts in it. If they wait until after he races his new Firebird and is considerably faster than he has been with his POS 3rd gen...the nansayers are going to credit the 5.3 motor and not the 4th gen chassis. You understand now? Sidney I agree with you Sidney. I think Bob is going to be BAD FAST once he gets that car sorted, which shouldn't take long. If the directors make decisions on his results they could be biased against the motor without merit. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sidney Posted December 7, 2012 Share Posted December 7, 2012 [Only thing I would add here is that once it's built and dyno'd...make the yea or nea decision then. DO NOT ALLOW BOB DENTON ON THE TRACK WITH A FRESH 4TH GEN AND A 5.3 BEFORE IT'S APPROVED! He about won Nationals in a worn out 3rd gen on 16's and you give him a fresh 4th gen and he's going to be even faster regardless what motor is in it. If you don't approve this motor before he's allowed to race it...forget it. You all know who's going to say "See I told you it was a class killer". Sidney Don't see why you think it's such a class killer and different than a regular LS1. BryanL, You missed my point as I don't think the 5.3 will be a class killer. What's going to be a class killer is Bob Denton in a new 4th gen regardless what motor he puts in it. If they wait until after he races his new Firebird and is considerably faster than he has been with his POS 3rd gen...the nansayers are going to credit the 5.3 motor and not the 4th gen chassis. You understand now? Sidney I agree with you Sidney. I think Bob is going to be BAD FAST once he gets that car sorted, which shouldn't take long. If the directors make decisions on his results they could be biased against the motor without merit. Exactly! Sidney Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Glenn Posted December 7, 2012 Share Posted December 7, 2012 The only thing we need to see w/ regards to the 5.3 is the dyno graph. Nothing else matters. The iron 5.3 is the same weight as the LT1. The aluminum 5.3 is the same weight as the 5.7 LS. So what could be different w/ a 5.3 in a 4th gen (besides the dyno curve) over what we already see? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sidney Posted December 7, 2012 Share Posted December 7, 2012 The only thing we need to see w/ regards to the 5.3 is the dyno graph. Nothing else matters. The iron 5.3 is the same weight as the LT1. The aluminum 5.3 is the same weight as the 5.7 LS. So what could be different w/ a 5.3 in a 4th gen (besides the dyno curve) over what we already see? Nothing. There...One director down. Sidney Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
D Algozine Posted December 7, 2012 Share Posted December 7, 2012 I sold out while I could and taking a wait and see position before I decide to move forward or move on. Honestly, what rule changes in the last few yeasrs where so significant that you decided to take this position? Jumping off the cliff and making wholesale changes to a 1/2 dozen existing platforms in order to accommodate one ... an unevaluated one ... the S197. And now the back pedalling ... I mean ... evaluation. Oh..........that ! I agree with the part about not evaluating the S197 before allowing it to enter the class. But, my guess is, that car was pushed into service from upper management. Along with a few other items. Remember, NASA is a business, and they are a "for" profit company, and they have an upper management. We typically beat up middle management over things "we"don't like, but in some cases, they may just be the messenger. I've seen it happen several times in that "other" pony car race class. I suppose it would have been a good idea to slap on a data aqu on an S197 a couple years ago to get an idea of what it was capable of, in terms of corner and braking G's. It is ironic. But, I do feel that race classes need to smartly evolve with calculated moves, using resources, (although limited) as best they can. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
D Algozine Posted December 7, 2012 Share Posted December 7, 2012 I sold out while I could and taking a wait and see position before I decide to move forward or move on. Honestly, what rule changes in the last few yeasrs where so significant that you decided to take this position? Jumping off the cliff and making wholesale changes to a 1/2 dozen existing platforms in order to accommodate one ... an unevaluated one ... the S197. And now the back pedalling ... I mean ... evaluation. Oh..........that ! I agree with the part about not evaluating the S197 before allowing it to enter the class. But, my guess is, that car was pushed into service from upper management. Along with a few other items. Remember, NASA is a business, and they are a "for" profit company, and they have an upper management. We typically beat up middle management over things "we"don't like, but in some cases, they may just be the messenger. I've seen it happen several times in that "other" pony car race class. I suppose it would have been a good idea to slap on a data aqu on an S197 a couple years ago to get an idea of what it was capable of, in terms of corner and braking G's. It is ironic. But, I do feel that race classes need to smartly evolve with calculated moves, using resources, (although limited) as best they can. Putting on my sens a hat ( in my David Carradine kung fu voice) There is only one constant in life...........it's change. Either change (evolve) or you become irrelevant. It doesn't mean drastic changes are needed or required, but evolution is inevitable. I don't mean some crazy wild rule changes like spirng adjusters or aftermarket diff covers . Something less drastic, like a new platform ! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mitchntx1548534714 Posted December 7, 2012 Share Posted December 7, 2012 But, my guess is, that car was pushed into service from upper management. Along with a few other items. You mean like visiting Miller seeking a Nationals venue, seeing the Mustang Challenge series starting up and saying "We gotta get us some of dat?" Greed by upper management is not a new thing. I've witnessed greedy upper management and middle management kool-aid drinkers all my life. And the working class takes it in the ass in the end. Hard to believe I'm also anti-union, isn't it ... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Al F. Posted December 9, 2012 Author Members Share Posted December 9, 2012 Dave...its not a guess. CMC2 was created because NASA wanted the newer cars to be included. Mitch...CMC2 was not purely for the S197. The driver for the current power numbers was and is and will continue to be the LS1. If all we wanted to do was bring the S197 in we would've done so at 230hp. I agree with Glenn, there is no performance aspects about the 5.3 that cant be determined on a dyno...but it has to be in CMC setup. Bob's gonna be fast no matter what he drives. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mitchntx1548534714 Posted December 10, 2012 Share Posted December 10, 2012 Mitch...CMC2 was not purely for the S197. The driver for the current power numbers was and is and will continue to be the LS1. If all we wanted to do was bring the S197 in we would've done so at 230hp. Got it ... alter 5 platforms in a proven, successful formula in order to accomodate 2. I stand corrected. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nape1548534725 Posted December 13, 2012 Share Posted December 13, 2012 Got it ... alter 5 platforms in a proven, successful formula in order to accomodate 2. I stand corrected. Mitch, you're part of the corporate world (from what I've figured over the years). You know the guy's signing the checks rarely know how to steer the bus, but they're in the driver's seat. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
supermac Posted December 18, 2012 Share Posted December 18, 2012 The only thing we need to see w/ regards to the 5.3 is the dyno graph. Nothing else matters. The iron 5.3 is the same weight as the LT1. The aluminum 5.3 is the same weight as the 5.7 LS. So what could be different w/ a 5.3 in a 4th gen (besides the dyno curve) over what we already see? Nothing. There...One director down. Sidney Two down, I am behind this under Glenn's caveat. I think the dyno numbers may suprise some people? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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