cozog1548534733 Posted January 13, 2013 Share Posted January 13, 2013 944, SE30, S3, are just some examples of cars with dedicated classed that are not being produced either. These classes don't add new stuff in every year, yet they seem to grow. I say continue the tweaks of what we have now, see the trend in 4 years and adjust as necessary. As a reference point. Those are well disigned, well built, light weight, low horsepower cars. Nothing like a an old Mustang or 3rd gen,or even a 4th gen for that matter. Wait, did you just call my car a poorly designed, shoddily built, fat pig?!? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smike Posted January 14, 2013 Share Posted January 14, 2013 Just look at Spec Z...4 cars at nationals...yeah...not a big class. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bluebandit48 Posted January 14, 2013 Share Posted January 14, 2013 poemotorsports.com order yours today!!! I am game.. great class for the 197-S car, Easy build, all ford racing parts.. which might be hard because they are always out of stock. it is just unfortunate to see that the toyo is till being used...... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Waco Racer Posted January 14, 2013 Share Posted January 14, 2013 Just look at Spec Z...4 cars at nationals...yeah...not a big class. Actually, there were 7 at Mid-Ohio and I know of 3 others that couldn't make the event due to personal reasons. Not bad for a class that was only 9 months old. Also, over 20 spec suspension kits have been sold through Nissan. If a class has good mfg. support, it can grow. The true test of the strength of a class is when that support stops. Will racers continue to participate? It would seem that Mustangs and Z cars have a good enthusiast followings that will help keep the classes strong for years. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
philstireservice Posted January 14, 2013 Share Posted January 14, 2013 poemotorsports.com order yours today!!! I am game.. great class for the 197-S car, Easy build, all ford racing parts.. which might be hard because they are always out of stock. it is just unfortunate to see that the toyo is till being used...... I think this attitude regarding the tire (Toyo RA-1) will change next year when it is the 275/35R18 Toyo RR. Everyone will love it..........just like the SpecE30, 944spec and Spec Miata will this year. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
D Algozine Posted January 14, 2013 Author Share Posted January 14, 2013 I was pretty bummed to see this as well. I would like to know what the long term plan is for CMC. What is the expectation for the class 5 years from now? 10 years from now? What is wrong w/ where we are right now? With all do respect, and I really am not intending to be an a$$, but I'm a little shocked that you asked that question on this open forum. There appears to be a divide and possibly a significant disconnect among some of the racers in the class. I didnt ask you. I know you want AI Light. In my opinion, (oh no run for the hills) AI is in the clouds and CMC is stock 1990's. Yes I'd like to see the class evolve over time. Nothing radical but something smartly. If nothing else, so it does't just fade away. But also, to help eliminate the spending dollars to save dimes, and time is money in my world. Pushing the new Mustang into it's own class doesn't seem like a positive move for CMC.... but I'm just one opinion. More of my opinion...yeah ! Spec Iron will be a large class in a few short years, and they could have all been in CMC. There is such a huge disparity between AI and CMC that anything in between will collect interest. Todd, yes your car came off the production line as a dressed up pig (sorry) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sidney Posted January 14, 2013 Share Posted January 14, 2013 I was pretty bummed to see this as well. I would like to know what the long term plan is for CMC. What is the expectation for the class 5 years from now? 10 years from now? What is wrong w/ where we are right now? With all do respect, and I really am not intending to be an a$$, but I'm a little shocked that you asked that question on this open forum. There appears to be a divide and possibly a significant disconnect among some of the racers in the class. I didnt ask you. I know you want AI Light. Spec Iron will be a large class in a few short years, and they could have all been in CMC. There is such a huge disparity between AI and CMC that anything in between will collect interest. Dave, I'm not sure. CMC is still a $10,000 class where this new AI-Spec is easy $20,000 to $25,000. I think it's a good filler between CMC and AI where cost can be from $25,000 to close to $75,000 for a Boss 302R but not sure the average CMC driver is going to spend $20,000 on a racecar. Sidney Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smike Posted January 14, 2013 Share Posted January 14, 2013 Just look at Spec Z...4 cars at nationals...yeah...not a big class. Actually, there were 7 at Mid-Ohio and I know of 3 others that couldn't make the event due to personal reasons. Not bad for a class that was only 9 months old. Also, over 20 spec suspension kits have been sold through Nissan. If a class has good mfg. support, it can grow. The true test of the strength of a class is when that support stops. Will racers continue to participate? It would seem that Mustangs and Z cars have a good enthusiast followings that will help keep the classes strong for years. Not counting the ones that flipped or crashed in key hole. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Waco Racer Posted January 14, 2013 Share Posted January 14, 2013 Not counting the ones that flipped or crashed in key hole. I thought you were talking about class size. I just wanted you to be informed. Besides, I don't think we need to get in to a discussion about cars that crash on the CMC board, lots of people could get offended. Too bad you didn't race at Mid-Ohio. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
suck fumes1548534743 Posted January 15, 2013 Share Posted January 15, 2013 I'm really curious how you build a CMC car for $10k?!?!? I guess if you rolled it out of a driveway and just bolted a cage in it with minimal stuff with no prep work on motor or drivetrain? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nape1548534725 Posted January 15, 2013 Share Posted January 15, 2013 I'm really curious how you build a CMC car for $10k?!?!? I guess if you rolled it out of a driveway and just bolted a cage in it with minimal stuff with no prep work on motor or drivetrain? I think mine is going to be closer to $7k, $6k if I really skimped. Buy parts right, do as much work your self as possible, and it doesn't have to cost a fortune. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Glenn Posted January 15, 2013 Share Posted January 15, 2013 My first one I built in 2004 was about $7k. Couldn't have built a better one back then. Brakes and wheels could add another $3k with todays rules. I know of one car that has about $35k in it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smike Posted January 15, 2013 Share Posted January 15, 2013 Not counting the ones that flipped or crashed in key hole. I thought you were talking about class size. I just wanted you to be informed. Besides, I don't think we need to get in to a discussion about cars that crash on the CMC board, lots of people could get offended. Too bad you didn't race at Mid-Ohio. I am informed. I was there too. I didn't race because it was a waste of money to race. Cars race; cars crash. No names here. It's the risk of our sport. Little interest in the National race. Regional championships offer more consistent competition and the lack of solid rules for the PT/TT group at Nationals left me never wanting to run PT/TT again. Besides, pay $600 to run on a track we see 5-8 times a year - pass. Too bad other regions didn't represent themselves at Nationals. Counting what I paid and have upgraded on my car I am around 7-8k. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ShadowBolt Posted January 15, 2013 Share Posted January 15, 2013 I'm really curious how you build a CMC car for $10k?!?!? I guess if you rolled it out of a driveway and just bolted a cage in it with minimal stuff with no prep work on motor or drivetrain? The real question is why can't you build/buy a CMC car for around $10,000.00. If you spend much more than this you are not really getting the whole idea of CMC. If you can build your own cage it's easy to get well under ten grand. If you insist on Stoptech brakes and have to pay for the cage I would guess 12 to 13 grand. I did build an engine for my car but after the oil pump gears broke I purchased a set of hardened gears and I'm running a junkyard unit now that makes a little more power than the one I built. I know several of the Texas guys run junkyard engines without issue. The 4.6 cost a fortune to rebuild. JJ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Waco Racer Posted January 15, 2013 Share Posted January 15, 2013 I am informed. I guess there's the confusion. Your first post was inaccurate. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AllZWay Posted January 15, 2013 Share Posted January 15, 2013 I'm really curious how you build a CMC car for $10k?!?!? I guess if you rolled it out of a driveway and just bolted a cage in it with minimal stuff with no prep work on motor or drivetrain? I built mine for around $8k and that included a spare engine. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CMC#11 Posted January 15, 2013 Share Posted January 15, 2013 I'm really curious how you build a CMC car for $10k?!?!? I guess if you rolled it out of a driveway and just bolted a cage in it with minimal stuff with no prep work on motor or drivetrain? It can be done. Will it be a top prepped car? Some say it can be done but I don't think that is possible w/ a Mustang. Here is an insanely abbreviated list of what I have in my car: 300 - clean Fox roller 1400 - cage (awesome price back in 2005) 3500 - fresh 5.0 rebuild w/ Cobra heads, intake, cam, MAF, TB, RR, good balancer, pulleys, oil cooler, etc. 2000 - Tremec 3550 w/ clutch, al driveshaft, shifter, and .82 5th gear 1000 - 8.8 w/ T2R, new gears, and SN95 axles 3000 - Stoptech brakes, new MC/booster, rear calipers and brackets, front and rear pads, and brake ducting 1000 - 2 sets of 17x9 wheels, weight 20 lbs. 1000 - new set of tires 1000 - set of 4 shocks (these could be much more or less) 800 - fca bushings, c/c plates, bump steer kit, rack bushings, springs 400 - rear lc arms and torque box repair kit 400 - panhard bar 1000 - halo seat, belts, window net, fire bottle, master disconnect, etc. 16,800 - Total This assumes you pay $0 for all paint / body work, have a good radiator, alt, p/s pump, water pump, starter, rack, fuel pump, tank, battery, gauges, and any of the other 100's of parts that nickle + dime a deal. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Al F. Posted January 15, 2013 Members Share Posted January 15, 2013 Right, now instead of doing a really bitchin' rebuild you run a salvage yard motor, run Wilwoods instead of Stoptechs, and a rebuilt T5 instead of a 3550 and you're right back to about $11k It can be done, just not everyone chooses to go that route. Spec Iron rules are out. I added all of the permitted parts using Capaldi Racing prices and it came out to just over $10k. You could of course be on the track and competitive for much less since some of the allowed parts arent necessary. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
suck fumes1548534743 Posted January 15, 2013 Share Posted January 15, 2013 Those amounts don't include the car purchase price I'm assuming? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CMC#11 Posted January 15, 2013 Share Posted January 15, 2013 Right, now instead of doing a really bitchin' rebuild you run a salvage yard motor, run Wilwoods instead of Stoptechs, and a rebuilt T5 instead of a 3550 and you're right back to about $11k It can be done, just not everyone chooses to go that route. Spec Iron rules are out. I added all of the permitted parts using Capaldi Racing prices and it came out to just over $10k. You could of course be on the track and competitive for much less since some of the allowed parts arent necessary. So you can build a front-running 4th gen or a budget Mustang for $11k? FWIW, I rebuilt my 5.0L motor for exactly $1k. The majority of the $3,500 I mentioned was for all the Cobra parts that are necessary to get close to the 260 hp limit. A junkyard motor would leave you a good 30-40 hp away without using the Cobra parts. suck fumes: I paid $300 for my car as a straight roller Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
suck fumes1548534743 Posted January 15, 2013 Share Posted January 15, 2013 Who in their right mind would build a cage for $1400??? That's not much more than what the materials cost. He must of have been your close friend to practically build it for free?!? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve91T Posted January 16, 2013 Share Posted January 16, 2013 Who in their right mind would build a cage for $1400??? That's not much more than what the materials cost. He must of have been your close friend to practically build it for free?!? My builder quoted me $1300-$1800 for my CMC 4th gen. I guess we'll find out next month. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nape1548534725 Posted January 16, 2013 Share Posted January 16, 2013 Who in their right mind would build a cage for $1400??? That's not much more than what the materials cost. He must of have been your close friend to practically build it for free?!? 6/8pts with <100' of tube? It's not like it's a full chassis car. I got my AI cage built for that in 2006 with bars through the firewall and extra bracing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Glenn Posted January 16, 2013 Share Posted January 16, 2013 Tube runs around $400 for 80 ft. I'll do 4th gen CMC cages for $2K and I buy the tube. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom P Posted January 16, 2013 Share Posted January 16, 2013 AL.....The Spec Iron rules require the removal of the driver and passenger side windows. I was curious if this was inserted to help prevent a recurrence of what happened in the 60's when racers went to their Hertz rental car company, brought a Shelby to the track, bolted on a roll bar, tires and went racing for the weekend? On second thought, that would be impossible nowadays. Adding (per SI rules) legal roll cages, fire suppression systems, harnesses, window nets, safety switches plus 4 position hood pins would make it ridiculously difficult to do on a short turnaround basis. So why the window removal? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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