CMC plans for the future ??

[Glenn]

I know it's come up before, but the truck engines need to be considered. Even the 5.3 would be great for our current CMC hp levels.

 

 

Personally, I'm glad people are talking about the future of CMC. That means that people do care.

 

 

Glenn, you said the E30 and Miata classes are so popular because of the large car count, what can we do to increase CMC's car count?

 

Rules stabilty and cost control.

[Glenn]

I know it's come up before, but the truck engines need to be considered. Even the 5.3 would be great for our current CMC hp levels.

 

 

Personally, I'm glad people are talking about the future of CMC. That means that people do care.

 

 

Glenn, you said the E30 and Miata classes are so popular because of the large car count, what can we do to increase CMC's car count?

 

Rules stabilty and cost control.

[Glenn]

I just don't understand why you guys are not puching for a NEW class to put all the NEW cars into? What is the draw to have the old cars run w/ the new cars?

 

Create a new class based around the S-197, 5th gen Camaro, CTS-V, G8, GTO, and whatever Dodge has to offer. Extend the legal platforms to include the older cars so those that want to move up can (or come down from AI). But the last thing I want to see is anyone forced to upgrade to the level of an S-197, 5th gen, or whatever. Just the change to 260hp, 13" 4 piston brakes and 17" wheels just about killed CMC. The class stalled bigtime durring this transition. Anymore change to CMC and it will have lost what little CMC it still retains.

 

Remember, CMC is about low cost entry level racing. There is no lower cost class to run a Pony car in. I think it is just plain crazy to increase the cost to stay and/or the cost to get into CMC.

 

Of all this talk I hear about adding in newer cars, I hear about 4X as much about taking 17's and 13" brakes away from CMC (wings too).

 

Glenn,

That may be the best plan. All I'm asking is to start thinking about how and when to make this work. Because new cars are already here (S197), and it's not equal now. In my opinion, there are many item to get resolved, but I'm not sure these topics are even being considered.

Besides, pretty sure SI is highly regarded by HQ, and it "appears" to be a new Mustang class, so either add another separate Modern car class, which seems unsustainable, ..... or modify SI, which seems unlikely.

Lots of questions.

 

 

I have nothing to do w/ SI. I will likely not get involved w/ a new version of CMC either.

Seems you have enough of an opinion about both that perhaps you should get involved in a way other than posting on this forum. Don't take this in a negative way....... just that you seem to want to be involved at a level above the racer level and you seem so quick to point out what is wrong w/ SI, CMC, AI and the like.

Your a passenger or a driver, you can't be both or neither.

[37Stang]

I know it's come up before, but the truck engines need to be considered. Even the 5.3 would be great for our current CMC hp levels.

 

 

Personally, I'm glad people are talking about the future of CMC. That means that people do care.

 

 

Glenn, you said the E30 and Miata classes are so popular because of the large car count, what can we do to increase CMC's car count?

 

Rules stabilty and cost control.

 

Exactly... A stable set of rules will bring new racers as they don't have to worry about having to spend more money before their car is even finished.

 

With that being said, the rules do have to evolve in order to control costs.

 

I don't know anything about the GM cars regarding their weak points. Two things I would like to see changed are permitting the Fords to run a torque arm and allowing all cars the use of adjustable coilover shocks/struts.

 

The use of a torque arm simply due to the fact that the upper torque boxes and upper control arms take a beating. I realize it may never come to be as it is a radical departure away from "stock" and I am Ok with that... It is not going to prevent me from going forward with my plans to join the class.

 

Threaded sleeves to permit the use of standard diameter springs would prove to ease the adjustability of these cars. Coilover springs also cost less than standard style springs. The rules already permit adjustable ride heights, corner weighting, etc... through the use of spacers. Why not make it easier and less costly?

[D Algozine]

A couple MORE quick facts

 

CMC is not identical to the other spec series, such as Spec Miata, E30, 944, or even the new SI.......Why, ......glad you asked. Those other series are only working with a single platform....one manufacturer. Maybe some very minor tweaks for a few variations, but all very straight forward, which results in little to no reason to make any rule mods. Much simpler.

CMC is working to keep it equal amongst several different platforms. And different versions of cars and generations that span some 30 years. Not an easy task. As racers develop cars, the needle gets moved. And by including the S197, even with the HP and weight modifications, the gap is just wider. Managing these differences is one of the reasons for modifications to the rules. If CMC just stopped with the checks and balances, it would quickly become unequal.

My opinion, yes I get to voice my opinion, at least until someone shuts me down,.... CMC is half pregnant. NASA HQ, and possibly others, have pushed for evolution and most CMC directors pushed back with trying to maintain the status quoi. That's how you end up with $2000 front brakes and no adjustable springs, .......and a 9" rear end, but a stock diff cover for everyone else, and near perfectly engineered three link (S197) and a "poor mans" three link, ETC...

It's not easy for the directors to call "balls and strikes", when the strike zone gets moved.

Personally, I'd like to see the next few years plotted out, with any changes that are planned to be phased, and explained well in advance. Maybe that's easier said, then done.

[Glenn]

A couple MORE quick facts

 

CMC is not identical to the other spec series, such as Spec Miata, E30, 944, or even the new SI.......Why, ......glad you asked. Those other series are only working with a single platform....one manufacturer. Maybe some very minor tweaks for a few variations, but all very straight forward, which results in little to no reason to make any rule mods. Much simpler.

CMC is working to keep it equal amongst several different platforms. And different versions of cars and generations that span some 30 years. Not an easy task. As racers develop cars, the needle gets moved. And by including the S197, even with the HP and weight modifications, the gap is just wider. Managing these differences is one of the reasons for modifications to the rules. If CMC just stopped with the checks and balances, it would quickly become unequal.

My opinion, yes I get to voice my opinion, at least until someone shuts me down,.... CMC is half pregnant. NASA HQ, and possibly others, have pushed for evolution and most CMC directors pushed back with trying to maintain the status quoi. That's how you end up with $2000 front brakes and no adjustable springs, .......and a 9" rear end, but a stock diff cover for everyone else, and near perfectly engineered three link (S197) and a "poor mans" three link, ETC...

It's not easy for the directors to call "balls and strikes", when the strike zone gets moved.

Personally, I'd like to see the next few years plotted out, with any changes that are planned to be phased, and explained well in advance. Maybe that's easier said, then done.

 

Nice post.

I can assure one thing, the rules will change w/ regards to keeping platform parity. Just adding 30 hp to all cars caused a problem. Now the area under the curve changed as each motor makes power differently. Add in non-stock cams, and it get way out of wack. I think we are just now getting that all sorted.

We can pretty much remove the S-197 from future consideration. The rules were adjusted to ensure w/ take them out of contention. We will adjust as needed to speed them back up, but there will likely be none racing in CMC from here on forward. W/ none racing, there is not way to adjust accurately.

[wastntim]

A couple MORE quick facts

 

CMC is not identical to the other spec series, such as Spec Miata, E30, 944, or even the new SI.......Why, ......glad you asked. Those other series are only working with a single platform....one manufacturer. Maybe some very minor tweaks for a few variations, but all very straight forward, which results in little to no reason to make any rule mods. Much simpler.

CMC is working to keep it equal amongst several different platforms. And different versions of cars and generations that span some 30 years. Not an easy task. As racers develop cars, the needle gets moved. And by including the S197, even with the HP and weight modifications, the gap is just wider. Managing these differences is one of the reasons for modifications to the rules. If CMC just stopped with the checks and balances, it would quickly become unequal.

quote]

 

This is a very good point. CMC is definately not a typical spec class.

[Glenn]

AL F says it all the time. CMC is not a SPEC class.

[Al F.]

Well, it isnt! spec means everyone runs the same hardware. CMC creates boundaries within which you have options. That is aluring, to some, and annoying to others.

[D Algozine]

Well, it isnt! spec means everyone runs the same hardware. CMC creates boundaries within which you have options. That is aluring, to some, and annoying to others.

 

I would suggest to take this definition one step further and say, that it is a spec "type" class for several generations of F bodies and Mustangs.

Point being, it is intended to be minimal modifications, stock based cars, and cost containment. All of which is the point of nearly all spec classes. So CMC certainly has many of the basic characteristics of a typical spec class.

Weather it is intended or not, I'm pretty sure, most racers view it as a spec type class. Obliviously, there are exceptions and rules in place to try to keep the platforms on a level playing field, which is where CMC does differ, and where opinions and discussions are prevalent.

[Srparr]

Sorry I am late to the party....FWIW, I am the new guy who has never raced and did a lot of homework in Nasa and Scca classes and choose CMC. I could probably afford to run in other more costly classes, but choose CMC for 2 reasons. One I am a chevy guy, particularly the Camaro AND out of all my research there was one theme that Keo recurring when I looked at CMC......the people that ran in it. I constantly heard about the camaraderie and how racers would help each other in the pits and then go compete. I didn't hear the same in the bimmer or ITE worlds.

 

Being the total green pea new guy I chose to build a 4th gen camaro because I heard TE cmc clan was the best clan to hang with. I am in the SF Bay Area and have already experienced it with local offers for help and guidance.

 

I look forward to joining the ranks and as I read through this post string, it seems CMC will be alive and well as long as there are options for cars people enjoy to run are available. The most important thing to me is to hang with people that share the same passion and I believe the people make the series or the association, not exactly what shocks they can run.

 

Again....just a comment from a guy who recently choose cmc out of nasa and scca available options.....

[D Algozine]

Sorry I am late to the party....FWIW, I am the new guy who has never raced and did a lot of homework in Nasa and Scca classes and choose CMC. I could probably afford to run in other more costly classes, but choose CMC for 2 reasons. One I am a chevy guy, particularly the Camaro AND out of all my research there was one theme that Keo recurring when I looked at CMC......the people that ran in it. I constantly heard about the camaraderie and how racers would help each other in the pits and then go compete. I didn't hear the same in the bimmer or ITE worlds.

 

Being the total green pea new guy I chose to build a 4th gen camaro because I heard TE cmc clan was the best clan to hang with. I am in the SF Bay Area and have already experienced it with local offers for help and guidance.

 

I look forward to joining the ranks and as I read through this post string, it seems CMC will be alive and well as long as there are options for cars people enjoy to run are available. The most important thing to me is to hang with people that share the same passion and I believe the people make the series or the association, not exactly what shocks they can run.

 

Again....just a comment from a guy who recently choose cmc out of nasa and scca available options.....

 

Welcome.

Your input and explanations are appreciated and valued.