suck fumes1548534743 Posted September 8, 2013 Share Posted September 8, 2013 Dude this tech is nothing compared to what I'm used to in spec Miata. I used to go home from these events with my whole drivetrain in a box. I like this whole Dyno class thing, makes the event a lot more enjoyable! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RichV Posted September 8, 2013 Share Posted September 8, 2013 Congrats Aaron! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BADVENM Posted September 8, 2013 Share Posted September 8, 2013 We need to come to a decision as to whether or not appearance related items are going to be enforced at a national championship event. Half of the field did not have the required glove box cover (7.6.2). If these rules aren't going to be enforced remove them from the book. We went through this a few years ago. Another item, weight of the wheel. I believe we have discussed that the weight of the wheel does NOT include the wheel weights. Aarons wheel was weighed with the weights on for the one wheel that was checked. This rule regarding weight of the wheel needs clarification so there can be no interpretation of the rule. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
densmore Posted September 8, 2013 Share Posted September 8, 2013 Aaron, you were the class of the field all week Congrats! It is really clear that you've put in the time to get your car prepared and you drove well. We in the Rocky Mountain Region need to step it up. I need to work harder on the car and my driving skills. Derek, Tim and Kent nice job also. Spencer, so sorry to see the DQ, you drove hard and smooth. I tried to hold you off. Again, great job Aaron Brad Densmore CMC 57 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
koserv Posted September 8, 2013 Share Posted September 8, 2013 This is my 4th Nats, and I quit worrying about tech. I make sure my car passes the "hard" numbers (you do that after you have to give a check back), and figure the rest are just suggestions. This was another year where you could just glance at a car and see things in violation of specific rules. The officials don't seem to care, and making it the competitors responsibility to enforce compliance is bull shit. I was going to submit an RCR to clarify the wheel weight issue, but what's the point? Hell, let's just throw 50 more pounds at the 4th gens so those poor SN95's don't feel so bad. Sorry, that last bit was uncalled for, but we are on hour 16 on the return trip, and had our second tire blow out last night...I'm a little cranky. My point is that other than the weight/dyno scrutiny, I've been underwhelmed with the tech/compliance thing at Nationals. Having said that, it was still a great week. We had some super racing, and a new kid made the top step. Pretty cool. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve91T Posted September 8, 2013 Share Posted September 8, 2013 I can't wait to see the videos! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
suck fumes1548534743 Posted September 8, 2013 Share Posted September 8, 2013 It wouldn't have mattered if wheel weights were on my wheels or not. When I bought them I took one straight out of the box and took it to a UPS store and weighed it with the permanent spacer attached and it was 18.0pds on the nose. With the balance weights, valve stem, and all the crud built up in it it would have been 18.4-18.5 but the Longacre scales round off to the nearest pound so they were still 18 pds on the tech scales. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Glenn Posted September 8, 2013 Share Posted September 8, 2013 It wouldn't have mattered if wheel weights were on my wheels or not. When I bought them I took one straight out of the box and took it to a UPS store and weighed it with the permanent spacer attached and it was 18.0pds on the nose. With the balance weights, valve stem, and all the crud built up in it it would have been 18.4-18.5 but the Longacre scales round off to the nearest pound so they were still 18 pds on the tech scales. Careful there. The wheel weight is the weight of the wheel itself, not all the other stuff. The spacer is fine as long as it doesn't come off. The valve stems, balance weights and crud do not count towards legality. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
suck fumes1548534743 Posted September 8, 2013 Share Posted September 8, 2013 Like I said the bare wheel with permanent spacer is 18pds. And according to Todd it is weighed "as raced" for tech so the weights would be included then. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
koserv Posted September 8, 2013 Share Posted September 8, 2013 Thus my point..... A couple ounces one way or another wasn't going to make up the two seconds we were behind. And Aaron, I'm not picking on you...beautiful car prepped to your best effort to the max of the rules, and a great drive. But I was told point blank the weight was as raced, and then asked to be shown in the rules where it said that was the case. Needless to say I was never shown because its not there. So, here I am, the guy who backed onto the podium by way of the one thing we actually DO enforce, being expected to protest the guy who's been spanking me all weekend, when the guy who's supposed to enforce the rules can't show me the rule that backs his ruling. Spectacular. Pull good numbers, make weight, and if you miss it a little bit on the other stuff, meh, no big deal. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
suck fumes1548534743 Posted September 8, 2013 Share Posted September 8, 2013 Either way, my car was legal whether it was weighed "as raced " or not, those wheels will make the 18pd minimum even without the balancing weights. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BADVENM Posted September 8, 2013 Share Posted September 8, 2013 Not sure but the Longacre scale the wheel was weighed on only rounds to nearest pound. A more accurate reading to the nearest tenth may have provided a more accurate number. The Longacre scale was the one the cars get weighed on. Something to think a out for silly season 2014. If the wheel with nothing else attached weighed 17.9 pounds it wouldnt meet the 18 pound rule for a 17 inch wheel. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
koserv Posted September 8, 2013 Share Posted September 8, 2013 Guess ill make one more point as long as I'm making friends and influencing people. Last year they teched lower control arms without knowing the actual control arm length. This year they did wheel weights without knowing, or at least not being able to support, the rule (if its as raced, don't you need to weigh all 4??). For next year, if your going to tech something (we already know if its not in the check list, its ok), can you at least read the rule and supporting documents so you know what you're checking? Oh man, I need to get out of this truck ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
koserv Posted September 8, 2013 Share Posted September 8, 2013 And again, Aaron, not calling you out, just our system of verifying compliance. The wheel weight issue just happens to illustrate perfectly some of the shortcomings of our system. I do not want SM protest everything take your car home in a box. But for the few things we do check, and for any blatant "hey, what/where is that", the officials should know the rule, know how to check it, be able to back it up with documentation, and enforce it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Glenn Posted September 8, 2013 Share Posted September 8, 2013 Like I said the bare wheel with permanent spacer is 18pds. And according to Todd it is weighed "as raced" for tech so the weights would be included then. Todd has been wrong a few times. Wheel weights do not count. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Glenn Posted September 8, 2013 Share Posted September 8, 2013 Good stuff guys. We will make sure the rules are more clear (in this area) going forward. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
suck fumes1548534743 Posted September 8, 2013 Share Posted September 8, 2013 Not sure but the Longacre scale the wheel was weighed on only rounds to nearest pound. A more accurate reading to the nearest tenth may have provided a more accurate number. The Longacre scale was the one the cars get weighed on. Something to think a out for silly season 2014. If the wheel with nothing else attached weighed 17.9 pounds it wouldnt meet the 18 pound rule for a 17 inch wheel. But it didn't weigh 17.9 pds. It would have been 18.4. It was 18 bare on a UPS certified scale! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
koserv Posted September 8, 2013 Share Posted September 8, 2013 Doesn't matter if the scales were certified by the Pope. Track scales/dyno/rulers/toe plates/etc are official. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
suck fumes1548534743 Posted September 8, 2013 Share Posted September 8, 2013 Ok well then I'm still legal cause they said 18pds. It's over now and I won fair and square. Really nothing else to Argue about. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Dustin M. Posted September 8, 2013 Members Share Posted September 8, 2013 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
koserv Posted September 8, 2013 Share Posted September 8, 2013 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
koserv Posted September 8, 2013 Share Posted September 8, 2013 Dude, take a deep breath. Relax. You did a hell of a job. You "SM" prepped a CMC car and drove the wheels off it. I'm jealous of both the car and the skill. Just using the wheel weight thing to illustrate the point. They pre made a decision to check a part, had the part in their hand, and still weren't entirely sure what they were checking. Happened last year too. Just happened to be your part. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BADVENM Posted September 8, 2013 Share Posted September 8, 2013 (edited) Luckily the dash rule was mentioned before the final race and not to dq for non compliance. You were all really fast and again congrats. I need to find 4 seconds a lap somewhere. Edited September 9, 2013 by Guest Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BADVENM Posted September 9, 2013 Share Posted September 9, 2013 Read here for the ruling on wheel weights 5 years ago, its the last post from Al himself: http://www.camaromustangchallenge.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=3062&postdays=0&postorder=asc&highlight=tire+weights&start=15 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
koserv Posted September 9, 2013 Share Posted September 9, 2013 Yeah, the infamous hole in the dash rule. Maybe next year we can get a memo before Nationals that specifies what's important (HP/Tq/wt), and what's not (everything else). Seems there's a few people that might have issues with that kind of tech scrutiny (everyone who's been DQ'ed for something other than dyno breakout). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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