ls168camaro Posted September 18, 2013 Share Posted September 18, 2013 Why in the world do you guys give Glenn so much hell when he is pretty much the only one you guys go to for answers. I can't believe he puts up with the way you guys treat him as much as he does. You should really be thanking him for his input, knowledge, history of the rules etc. You should also realize that he is entitled to his own opinion even if it differs from yours. If you don't like his opinion don't ask him for it. He is just one of the many directors Nobody is going to like every rule but you are all here because you like this set of rules better than any other class. Ever wonder why so many others aren't posting? Because it's going to be handled by the directors and some of you guys just don't get it. No matter how much you write and complain it still comes down to the directors vote. So talk to your regional director about it but don't be surprised when you find out they aren't going to vote the way you want. Then ask your director why they don't post up on here? And the answer to why your other regional directors don't post up is because the way you guys treat them when they do. Instead of complaining why don't you offer help to your Reg Director to learn more about the whole series. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AllZWay Posted September 18, 2013 Share Posted September 18, 2013 Why in the world do you guys give Glenn so much hell when he is pretty much the only one you guys go to for answers. I can't believe he puts up with the way you guys treat him as much as he does. You should really be thanking him for his input, knowledge, history of the rules etc. You should also realize that he is entitled to his own opinion even if it differs from yours. If you don't like his opinion don't ask him for it. He is just one of the many directors Nobody is going to like every rule but you are all here because you like this set of rules better than any other class. Ever wonder why so many others aren't posting? Because it's going to be handled by the directors and some of you guys just don't get it. No matter how much you write and complain it still comes down to the directors vote. So talk to your regional director about it but don't be surprised when you find out they aren't going to vote the way you want. Then ask your director why they don't post up on here? And the answer to why your other regional directors don't post up is because the way you guys treat them when they do. Instead of complaining why don't you offer help to your Reg Director to learn more about the whole series. Absolutely... Glenn will at least will answser your questions. We don't always agree on every rule, but he is always trying to do best for the series as he sees it. Many directors won't come on here and take the criticism or answer the tough questions. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FBody383 Posted September 18, 2013 Share Posted September 18, 2013 Wait a minute....I thought guys with little to no CMC racing are supposed to shut the F$&% up. Or is that just ME?.... Oh...unless they agree with you....Now I get it. "Spend what ever you want I don't care" Makes no sense to me. I do care, as do many others, and so should you, if you want to maintain the spirit of the class. WTF...one guy spends $2000 and gains 2/10...one guys spends $3000 and gains 3/10. THIS IS A COST CONTAINMENT...NO ADVANTAGE CLASS. Not my words or rules. This is a fact...no opinions needed. What the F#@$ happened to "don't look for advantages in the rules...this is not that type of class?" Dave, I'm another Texas guy and I don't know you but I'm hopeful that you would fit right in down here. I think the spending train started, in part, with the move to 260hp and the big brake kits. Somebody is ALWAYS going to spend money - engine, transmission, brakes, tires, wheels, coaching... I'm not. I race CMC because in my small block pony car mind, the cars and the people are the best combination to spend time with on and at the track. I'm a 4th gen guy running stock brakes and 16" wheels. I have very limited seat time compared to the 'show ponies' but have run within 0.1/sec/lap of them on occassion. I'm not interested in a spec class, but I too prefer a ruleset with limited wiggle room that allows the multiple platforms in the class to all be competitive. And since I have no desire to step into a Director role of any sort, I choose to believe in the guys that do and accept there will be things I don't prefer - but nowhere near enough reasons yet to stop. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Glenn Posted September 19, 2013 Share Posted September 19, 2013 (edited) Someone said unsprung weight doesn't matter? Did I read that right? Yes it does. There is an advantage. A 16 lbs wheel modified with a 2 lbs spacer + 26 lbs tire with an assembly package of 44 lbs. Compared to a 18 lbs wheel + 2lbs spacer (not attached to wheel) + 26 lbs tire with the assembly package at 46 lb. 2 lbs a corner is a significant savings for unsprung weight. Go ask a SM driver (noted, person who found grey in this rule was a SM driver). Less unsprung = quicker accel/decel response, steering inputs, braking...its it 1s a lap? No, but it can be a tenth or two. And with how we are in the regions I've raced -- generally that close to someone. I don't recall that being said. I did say something about the location of 1/2lb of rotational mass would not amount to a measurable difference on a CMC car. It will not show up in the laptimes. Edited September 19, 2013 by Guest Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nape1548534725 Posted September 19, 2013 Share Posted September 19, 2013 There is no rule or law that says you can't do this cause it'll piss everyone off and no one else thought about it before you. Ask Nick Steel how that one works. Or my stillborn trans, or the MW gang on wings a couple years ago, or... just because it was legal when you did it, doesn't mean it will be forever. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Glenn Posted September 19, 2013 Share Posted September 19, 2013 Smike, you asked this: Glenn - did you just infer that I "don't get it". Don't mince words here. Blunt is acceptable for internet writing. We can't get inflection of tone otherwise. My above comment about "getting it/not getting it" was more of a general comment. I was pointing out that from 2005-2006 I thought I "got it". Then one day while "talking" w/ the Directors of the day, it hit me. I was looking at this all wrong. I felt very embarrassed over the way I approched this level of racing. While the effort was fine, it was the way I delt w/ issues and the level of "OMG" I put on those issues that was the problem. I also had major trust issues w/ the local Directors of the day. Some of it was justified to a much smaller degree and the rest was me being a total drama queen. So to some degree, I deserve the crap I get here since I gave it out plenty back then. So while you may or may not get it (only you really know if you do or not), your perspective on this will change after a couple/few years of this level of racing. And getting it involves the whole picture, not in regards to just 1 rule here or there. It involves the perspective of the lowest common denominator w/ regard to budget and mechanical ability. Its an overall view. History has alot to do w/ this as well. Knowing where we were and how we got here helps to understand why we have what we do today. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Glenn Posted September 19, 2013 Share Posted September 19, 2013 Are we a "spec" class or no? Spec Miata and Spec 944 - you have specific part and manufacture limits. And they tear down motors all the time for every little bit. That's a choice, but not a requirement. Al F will be very quick to correct you on this. We are not a SPEC class. I used to call it one as well. But I have to say, the answer is no, we are not a SPEC class. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Glenn Posted September 19, 2013 Share Posted September 19, 2013 Wait a minute....I thought guys with little to no CMC racing are supposed to shut the F$&% up. I never told you to "shut the F$&% up." I did say that you should run a few laps/races in a CMC car before you present yourself as an expert on how to fix CMC. I will say that the rookie who posted has run most of this year and some of last w/ us as well as pitting w/ us during his HPDE days. His attitude shows his perspective is correct. Takes longer for some than others...... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Glenn Posted September 19, 2013 Share Posted September 19, 2013 WTF...one guy spends $2000 and gains 2/10...one guys spends $3000 and gains 3/10. THIS IS A COST CONTAINMENT...NO ADVANTAGE CLASS. Not my words or rules. This is a fact...no opinions needed. Dave - excluding wheels made of something other than metal (this should be fixed soon IMO), I don't see the cost of the wheel being related to a drop in laptimes as long as they are 17", 9.5" wide or less and constructed of metal. Show me in reality (not on paper) a reduction in laptimes greater then the average "background noise" by using a wheel that has 1/2lb of mass moved from the outside 1/2 of the wheel to the center of the wheel. Prove to all the Directors w/ data and you will win this fight w/out a doubt. But if you believe it, you got to prove it. At this point I do not know of any Directors who think this is worth addressing. I may be wrong, but they have not said anything here or in private Director emails. Do I like the idea of $4000-$10,000 sets of wheels? NOPE! But do I think that this will be why I finished 2nd? 10th? Last? NOPE. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smike Posted September 19, 2013 Share Posted September 19, 2013 (edited) Smike, you asked this: Glenn - did you just infer that I "don't get it". Don't mince words here. Blunt is acceptable for internet writing. We can't get inflection of tone otherwise. My above comment about "getting it/not getting it" was more of a general comment. I was pointing out that from 2005-2006 I thought I "got it". Then one day while "talking" w/ the Directors of the day, it hit me. I was looking at this all wrong. I felt very embarrassed over the way I approched this level of racing. While the effort was fine, it was the way I delt w/ issues and the level of "OMG" I put on those issues that was the problem. I also had major trust issues w/ the local Directors of the day. Some of it was justified to a much smaller degree and the rest was me being a total drama queen. So to some degree, I deserve the crap I get here since I gave it out plenty back then. So while you may or may not get it (only you really know if you do or not), your perspective on this will change after a couple/few years of this level of racing. And getting it involves the whole picture, not in regards to just 1 rule here or there. It involves the perspective of the lowest common denominator w/ regard to budget and mechanical ability. Its an overall view. History has alot to do w/ this as well. Knowing where we were and how we got here helps to understand why we have what we do today. I disagree with "general comment". That is a flat out poorly covered lie. If you think that is the way a Director should act - you should not be a Director. And what do you know of my driving education and background? I will not dignify the rest of this response with an answer. Al F will be very quick to correct you on this. We are not a SPEC class. I used to call it one as well. But I have to say, the answer is no, we are not a SPEC class. That was my intent on asking it - push the true questions and view point. But we are a BUDGET minded class. Edited September 19, 2013 by Guest Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Glenn Posted September 19, 2013 Share Posted September 19, 2013 What happened was Al threw it out the window and Glenn is being a good soldier and backing his Texas Boss. Once you guys realize that Glenn can have no other opinion you'll quit badgering him. By my count there are (3) other Regional Directors that have already spoke out against this issue. Let them vote on the Rules this winter. Not correct. I've disagreed w/ Al plenty. Here, face to face in a group of CMC'ers and durring rules debates. I do respect Al's position and try to "present a unified front" as best I can. The one thing I will do is enforce the rules as agreed upon no matter how I feel about an individual rule. I may say I don't like it, but I will enforce it. I'm entitled to my own opinion (and far too often express it), but I agreed to enforce the rules. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Glenn Posted September 19, 2013 Share Posted September 19, 2013 I have to run a 4lb chunk of billet AL at each corner to even make a 19lb 4th gen wheel fit. If the wheel won't fit my car without the 4lb adapter, can I go out and buy 14lb wheels since offset is open and these just correct the offset? nape - Yes! gotta be welded though. Thats the great thing here, we all can do it. Its gonna suck ass if the track width is changed though. I got a set of rebuildable 4th gen hubs at the tune of $500 that I am sitting on as a result of the 2013 rules track width change for GM's. Can't use them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Glenn Posted September 19, 2013 Share Posted September 19, 2013 (edited) I disagree with "general comment". That is a flat out poorly covered lie. If you think that is the way a Director should act - you should not be a Director. And what do you know of my driving education and background? I will not dignify the rest of this response with an answer. Sorry you feel that way. Those who know me in person will disagree w/ you. My level of integrity is one thing I hold in high value. I don't think any of my fellow racers know me as a liar. In fact, I've been told be many times that I'm honest to a fault. Edited September 19, 2013 by Guest Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Glenn Posted September 19, 2013 Share Posted September 19, 2013 That was my intent on asking it - push the true questions and view point. But we are a BUDGET minded class. Define budget. I could ask 100 people and get 100 different answers. This class was 100% budget to me in 2004 when I started building my car. Post 2009 w/ a layoff under my belt and a masive pay scale drop industry wide along w/ a power increase, wheel/tire size change and major brake changes, I can't say it fits my definition of budget anymore. At this point I feel it is about 70% of "budget" compaired to 2006-2007. Define budget. Its a moving number depending on who you ask. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
y5e06 Posted September 19, 2013 Share Posted September 19, 2013 7.31.1 Wheels may be of any construction or material and must be 16 or 17 inch diameter. boy, got tired of reading all those posts. It's been mentioned multiple times how it was a gray area. but it doesn't seem so. rules say you can construct your wheels any way you want. 7.1 Allowed Modifications Other than those items specifically allowed by the rules, no other part or component may be modified, removed, or disabled. If there are any "questionable" or "gray" area modifications, the competitor shall contact the CMC Board of Directors for clarification before competition. look, a rule: 7.31.1 Wheels may be of any construction or material and must be 16 or 17 inch diameter. There, it says it right there. any Construction. allowed by the rules. an allowed modification.[/b] ... yeah i never liked the big brakes either... then again i haven't used my brakes since last year Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
D Algozine Posted September 19, 2013 Share Posted September 19, 2013 Why in the world do you guys give Glenn so much hell when he is pretty much the only one you guys go to for answers. I can't believe he puts up with the way you guys treat him as much as he does. You should really be thanking him for his input, knowledge, history of the rules etc. You should also realize that he is entitled to his own opinion even if it differs from yours. If you don't like his opinion don't ask him for it. He is just one of the many directors Nobody is going to like every rule but you are all here because you like this set of rules better than any other class. Ever wonder why so many others aren't posting? Because it's going to be handled by the directors and some of you guys just don't get it. No matter how much you write and complain it still comes down to the directors vote. So talk to your regional director about it but don't be surprised when you find out they aren't going to vote the way you want. Then ask your director why they don't post up on here? And the answer to why your other regional directors don't post up is because the way you guys treat them when they do. Instead of complaining why don't you offer help to your Reg Director to learn more about the whole series. Why are some of us attached, simply because we have a difference of opinion ? Personal attach's, and comments that some of us don't belong or should consider going elsewhere.............those statements are uncalled for, and unnecessary. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
suck fumes1548534743 Posted September 19, 2013 Share Posted September 19, 2013 Wow 12 pages of whining. That's got to be some kind of record! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smike Posted September 19, 2013 Share Posted September 19, 2013 Wow 12 pages of whining. That's got to be some kind of record! Careful Herr Champion... This is a discussion to review grey areas of the rule set. This is one of many that we'll see RCRs on. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Glenn Posted September 19, 2013 Share Posted September 19, 2013 Wow 12 pages of whining. That's got to be some kind of record! Back off Aaron. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ls168camaro Posted September 19, 2013 Share Posted September 19, 2013 Seems like it's been a long time since this has been needed. If you haven't been around to see this before then it's probably better if you refrain from posting. I sure miss the creator of this. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
suck fumes1548534743 Posted September 19, 2013 Share Posted September 19, 2013 Sorry I couldn't resist. I remember that cat picture from 2010 but was wondering what it was about haha. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Glenn Posted September 19, 2013 Share Posted September 19, 2013 Sorry I couldn't resist. I remember that cat picture from 2010 but was wondering what it was about haha. Lets talk some this weekend. Tomorrow night would be best. I will fill you in on some history. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mitchntx1548534714 Posted September 19, 2013 Share Posted September 19, 2013 Juan dolla by rotsa lice Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ls168camaro Posted September 19, 2013 Share Posted September 19, 2013 Hah-I forwarded this to let the creator know I was stealing his mojo. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mitchntx1548534714 Posted September 19, 2013 Share Posted September 19, 2013 Sorry I couldn't resist. I remember that cat picture from 2010 but was wondering what it was about haha. Back a long time ago when the series meant something, the then National director and his Texas-based lackey were adamant about OEM replacement parts. I couldn't find a reasonably priced 1LE AC delete pulley for the ole speed racer, so I lobbied for a Chinese knock-off at about 1/3 the price. The then grand poo-bah nixed it explaining something about a slippery slope and that shame on me for suggesting using a part built by some poor Chinese kid working for a dollar a day. I then posted ... Juan dolla by rotsa lice And a legend was born ... On a side note ... I highly recommend that all of you sell your cars and rigs and buy guns. Peace -Out Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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