blk96gt Posted April 10, 2014 Share Posted April 10, 2014 While trying to figure out what path to go down for my dieing engine, I've found out that 02-04 4.6 Explorer engines are almost a drop in replacement. It's an aluminum Romeo block, with the main differences (that I can find) being the intake, oil pan, valve covers, and timing chain cover. All of those parts will swap right over from my current motor (96 GT Romeo iron block with 04 PI heads). My understanding is that since our cars came with a class legal aluminum block (96-02 Cobras), this swap would be fine. There's varying information on whether the cams are the same, but I'm not too worried about that since I will swap my 04 heads onto the short block anyways. From what I can find the rotating assemblies are also the same. So, is this legal? Seems similar to the truck 5.3 swap for the f-bodies. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Al F. Posted April 11, 2014 Members Share Posted April 11, 2014 If the block and rotating assembly are the same part then they're the same part regardless of where they started life. If its just that theyre similar then the differences have to be evaluated and accounted for. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Dustin M. Posted April 11, 2014 Members Share Posted April 11, 2014 FWIW I know the difference in cams on the DOHC Navigator vs. Cobra is negligible at best. I always thought the 2V engines used the same cams now matter what, but I could be wrong. The biggest difference I know of is PI vs non. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blk96gt Posted April 11, 2014 Author Share Posted April 11, 2014 OK so I did some more digging. The Mustangs came with a large variety of blocks over the years. I'll try to outline what I know here. It seems the aluminum block in the 02-04 Explorers was actually a WAP (Windsor Aluminum Plant) block, which was used in the 01(99?)-02 Cobras and 03/04 Mach 1's. The 96-98 (99?) Cobra's used a Teksid block, which happens to be the same motor used in the DOHC Lincoln Mk VIII's. There were a few different piston/rod/crank combos used in the 4.6 Mod motors, but it appears that all combinations were used at some point in the Mustang. Here is the breakdown of short block specs from 96-04 for the Mustangs that I know of. SOHC 96-98 GT - Romeo iron block, 10.49 cc dish pistons, Non-PI heads, 51cc chamber volume, 6-bolt crank 99-00 GT - Windsor iron block, 18.1cc dish, PI heads (42cc chamber volume), 8 bolt crank 01-04 GT - Romeo iron block, 15.8cc dish, PI heads, 6 bolt crank DOHC 96-98(99?) Cobra - Teksid aluminum block, 2.66cc pistons 01(99?)-04 Cobras/Mach 1 - WAP block, not sure about pistons The 02-04 Explorer has the SOHC 4.6 with a WAP block which happens happens to use all the same bolt patterns as an iron Romeo block. It also uses the 6 bolt bolt crank. I'm not sure what pistons it had in it, but they were likely the same 15.8cc piston that came in the 01-04 GT. So, there's some info. Clear as mud right? If anyone see's any errors in what I have above feel free to correct me. Edit: Made some corrections. The 96-98 Cobras came with Teksid, 99 Cobra came with some other aluminum block, 01+ came with WAP blocks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Al F. Posted April 18, 2014 Members Share Posted April 18, 2014 The 01 cobra and its aluminum block is legal. If that is the same wap block as used in the explorer then good to go just swap out other parts as necessary. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dillon Posted April 21, 2014 Share Posted April 21, 2014 The 01 cobra and its aluminum block is legal. If that is the same wap block as used in the explorer then good to go just swap out other parts as necessary. I read once that the part number is different. There are supposedly some very minor changes as well (quoted from a Mustang forum: The bolt locations for the left side motor mount is different. The Explorer engine has two raised bosses in the intake valley for a pair of knock sensors. Also the valley is much deeper in the Mustang engine.) Would either of those make it illegal? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blk96gt Posted April 21, 2014 Author Share Posted April 21, 2014 I had read that as well at some point, but my understanding was this block was used in the Mach 1 as well. Looking at the rules it doesn't say that a Mach 1 is a legal car, so someone else will have to comment on that. Either way, I don't plan on going this direction, but as Al said this adds another option for finding engine blocks, if it's deemed legal. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blk96gt Posted April 21, 2014 Author Share Posted April 21, 2014 According to Wikipedia "While the 2001 Cobra shares almost all the same components of the 1999, some changes were made including: The engine block was changed from the Teksid block to the Windsor Aluminum Plant or WAP block. The WAP block is regarded to be weaker than the previous Teksid block. Some 2001s received the Teksid, either from the factory or as a replacement motor" http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ford_Mustang_SVT_Cobra#2001_Cobra Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
suck fumes1548534743 Posted April 22, 2014 Share Posted April 22, 2014 The Mach one is legal. It's just an 03-04 cobra engine without the blower. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Dustin M. Posted April 22, 2014 Members Share Posted April 22, 2014 Changed my post after re-reading the rules. I had read that as well at some point, but my understanding was this block was used in the Mach 1 as well. Looking at the rules it doesn't say that a Mach 1 is a legal car, so someone else will have to comment on that. Either way, I don't plan on going this direction, but as Al said this adds another option for finding engine blocks, if it's deemed legal. 7.11.1 Any 4.6 Ford, 5.0,(302 Ford or 305 GM), 5.7 liter LT1/LS1 GM V8 production engine, in OEM stock configuration unless otherwise stated in these rules, that was originally offered in an eligible model car is legal. Cobra R model engines (Ford) and LT4 (GM/Chevrolet) engines or engine components are prohibited. Additionally, early GM cars may run any LT-1 from the 93-97 Late GM cars as long as the stock LT1 engine controlling electronics are maintained. It's not otherwise stated, therefore it's (Mach 1) legal. Like Al said, if the Explorer block was ever used in the Mustang (sounds like it was), it's legal too. You will have to run Mustang electronics, and though the rules don't explicitly state you must run a Mustang intake manifold, I think that'd be the intent. Kind of like sticking a 5.3 in a Camaro, you have the run the Camaro's intake and accessories and management. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dillon Posted April 22, 2014 Share Posted April 22, 2014 ...though the rules don't explicitly state you must run a Mustang intake manifold, I think that'd be the intent. Kind of like sticking a 5.3 in a Camaro, you have the run the Camaro's intake and accessories and management. I looked into this swap a while back in case I ever needed a replacement, and IIRC aside from the differences already mentioned, the longblock (including intake) is identical to a 99+ GT, so no need to swap. I think the Exploder engines had slightly different power ratings because of the headers / exhaust. So, good to know this would be a viable alternative. Read that it's close to 80 lbs. weight savings. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Al F. Posted April 23, 2014 Members Share Posted April 23, 2014 Just for clarity, its not kinda like the 5.3 at all. The 5.3 is a set of parts that are explicitly allowed even though they were never offered in an elligible car. The aluminum 4.6 from an explorer is legal on the premise that it is the same exact block as what was used in the Mustang. That doesnt mean anything else on that explorer's engine assembly is legal (like the exhaust manifolds for example). The rules do indeed state you have to run a stock mustang intake, just one from any of the eligible models due to the update/backdate within models rule. Hope that helps By the way its not a weight savings at all, check out the minimum weights table Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dillon Posted April 23, 2014 Share Posted April 23, 2014 Just for clarity, its not kinda like the 5.3 at all. The 5.3 is a set of parts that are explicitly allowed even though they were never offered in an elligible car. The aluminum 4.6 from an explorer is legal on the premise that it is the same exact block as what was used in the Mustang. That doesnt mean anything else on that explorer's engine assembly is legal (like the exhaust manifolds for example). The rules do indeed state you have to run a stock mustang intake, just one from any of the eligible models due to the update/backdate within models rule. Hope that helps By the way its not a weight savings at all, check out the minimum weights table Just to clarify, you would have to run a Mustang intake even if they're exactly the same (except maybe part number)? And true, it's not a weight savings, but you have much less weight up front, which I have no idea if that helps on Mustangs, but I'd take it That's all I meant, I imagine it's a bit like the difference between LT and LS powered cars... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ShadowBolt Posted April 24, 2014 Share Posted April 24, 2014 Just for clarity, its not kinda like the 5.3 at all. The 5.3 is a set of parts that are explicitly allowed even though they were never offered in an elligible car. The aluminum 4.6 from an explorer is legal on the premise that it is the same exact block as what was used in the Mustang. That doesnt mean anything else on that explorer's engine assembly is legal (like the exhaust manifolds for example). The rules do indeed state you have to run a stock mustang intake, just one from any of the eligible models due to the update/backdate within models rule. Hope that helps By the way its not a weight savings at all, check out the minimum weights table Just to clarify, you would have to run a Mustang intake even if they're exactly the same (except maybe part number)? And true, it's not a weight savings, but you have much less weight up front, which I have no idea if that helps on Mustangs, but I'd take it That's all I meant, I imagine it's a bit like the difference between LT and LS powered cars... Been there done that and it's not worth the extra weight you are required to put in the car if you run the aluminum block. JJ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Camron70 Posted October 22, 2014 Share Posted October 22, 2014 My understanding is that since our cars came with a class legal aluminum block (96-02 Cobras), this swap would be fine. There's varying information on whether the cams are the same, but I'm not too worried about that since I will swap my 04 heads onto the short block anyways. From what I can find the rotating assemblies are also the same. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Dustin M. Posted October 22, 2014 Members Share Posted October 22, 2014 I wonder if you 4.6 bubbas were to slap 2V heads on a 4V block would you make your torque numbers? Is that something that, if isn't legal, could be made legal? I know it's not like this everywhere, but at almost any given time I can go to the local pull and pay and grab a MKVIII engine for $200. My friend did this swap on his 4.6 and it made a world of difference. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
suck fumes1548534743 Posted October 22, 2014 Share Posted October 22, 2014 4v engine is legal so why wouldn't you just swap the whole thing? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Dustin M. Posted October 22, 2014 Members Share Posted October 22, 2014 You'd probably still come up short on torque wouldn't you? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ShadowBolt Posted October 23, 2014 Share Posted October 23, 2014 I wonder if you 4.6 bubbas were to slap 2V heads on a 4V block would you make your torque numbers? Is that something that, if isn't legal, could be made legal? I know it's not like this everywhere, but at almost any given time I can go to the local pull and pay and grab a MKVIII engine for $200. My friend did this swap on his 4.6 and it made a world of difference. I built a two valve with a Teksid block from a Mark VIII. High compression (but able to run 93 octane) and expected more torque. Not a bit. Also the aluminum block means you have to carry extra weight. Turn in was a little better but not worth it IMHO. JJ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Dustin M. Posted October 24, 2014 Members Share Posted October 24, 2014 Bummer. My friend had aftermarket cams too and I'm sure they wanted the extra static compression. Too bad it doesn't work on the stock stuff. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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