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wastntim

What is going on with CMC?

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wastntim

Why Are these boards so dead?

 

If I was looking at different racing classes and came onto this board, I would think CMC was a dead class.

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MHISSTC

I think it looks really bad that the newest Series Announcement is from 2012.

 

It appears the Regional and National series directors have given up entirely on posting ongoing series news such as who just won the 2014 Eastern National Championships, or even just who's battling it out for the lead in various regional competitions, etc.

 

I don't know if it's general apathy, confrontation avoidance, or if it is a result of there being so many other more popular ways that up to the minute information is being shared these days such as on Twitter, Facebook, and on the other NASA Regional forums that this forum just isn't getting the attention it once did.

 

But I agree, if this CMC forum is still supposed to be THE official agreed upon vehicle with which we are all supposed to be sharing information about the series nationally, it's pretty shameful. It does make the class appear inactive.

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BADVENM

Or they were scared away after seeing some of the asking prices for a CMC car in the for sale section.

 

2. INTENT

The intent of the Camaro Mustang Challenge (CMC) racing series is to provide National Auto Sport Association (NASA) members a racing series featuring production American pony cars. Modifications will be limited to those necessary to promote safety, close competition, and flexibility to enable drivers to learn and experiment with the principles of race car setup within boundaries intended to limit expenses, thereby providing the drivers with fun, exciting, and challenging yet approachable racing.

Edited by Guest

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Spencer

Yeah where are the nationals updates?

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Adam Ginsberg
If I was looking at different racing classes and came onto this board, I would think CMC was a dead class.

 

IMO, there are a few major reasons this statement is true:

  1. The CMC National Director spends very little time with the class. Getting Al F to engage, over the course of a season (not just at rules time), has been very difficult. Additionally, he doesn't attend the Nats.
  2. The constant move away from the original CMC rules made the class much more expensive than it ever should have been.
  3. The advent of SI.

 

I know Al Fernandez travels a great deal for work (as do I), and his children are getting older. The last CMC "State of the Union" message on this message board was 2009.

 

Based on my own experiences, he needs to step down, and turn it over to someone who has the time, and is willing to invest the energy to (hopefully) reinvigorate the class.

 

It's one of many reasons I sold my car, stepped down as Director, and left the class.

 

It's unfortunate to say, but IMO, CMC is not going to grow beyond what it is now. It will only deteriorate further.

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BADVENM

Well said Adam, I agree.

 

Selected enforcement of what rules will be and wont be followed at a National championship event (of all places) really irks me. It takes maybe 10 minutes to read the rules yet only "performance enhancing rules" are enforced. Simple fix for that, remove everything else from the rules or enforce everything in the rules. Until this is followed I wont spend the time and money to attend a National championship (or whatever it is now...which is a whole different thread) event.

Edited by Guest

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Sidney
Why Are these boards so dead?

 

If I was looking at different racing classes and came onto this board, I would think CMC was a dead class.

 

Rob,

 

It's not just this site. There hasn't been a post on the Midwest Region site since July 30th. No info on races, no cars for sale, no parking directions, no trash talk, no race reports...nothing.

 

Looks like CMC is dying on the vine along with NASA in general.

 

Pretty glad I sold out when I did,

 

Sidney

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MHISSTC

Rather than focus on what we think is wrong, lets focus on what we can or should be doing.

 

I for one would love to see more pictures of the cars currently being driven and the people who are driving them. ...connect a face with a car kind of thing...

And post more race results and times that go along with those faces and cars.

 

Something like these forum postings from back in 2012:

Scroll down through it to see what I mean.

 

http://www.camaromustangchallenge.com/forum/viewtopic.php?p=34787&sid=93ed8c833660ca89a284f1808f503d22

 

Way back when we also used to have driver photos and profiles posted. I'd like to see those return.

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BADVENM

We are seeing more video's now that we have a dedicated section for it

 

How are we doing on the social media front promoting CMC both regionally and nationally?

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suck fumes1548534743

I liked CMC but the way SI is growing and how close the competition was at Atlanta I can't see CMC growing. At tech this year they didn't even Dyno the top 3 after Sundays race. They made us jack up the car and they looked under it. That's it, we didn't even remove a wheel. SI was a little more in depth having to Dyno shocks and measure a few other things but that's it.

 

By the way I'm negotiable on my CMC car haha.

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MHISSTC
I liked CMC but the way SI is growing and how close the competition was at Atlanta I can't see CMC growing.

 

Without seeing any live video coverage this year or getting any regular updates, how close did the final CMC race end up being. Lap times from the final results would indicate it was pretty close also.

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suck fumes1548534743

Lap times don't mean anything. They got spread out pretty far when the AI field came through and separated everyone. My dad got chopped by an AI car and went two wheels off which was completely unnecessary and avoidable which caused him to lose the leader. He was close to the leader until that happened.

 

The top 9 SI cars were within a second of each other in times. Pretty fun!

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MHISSTC
Lap times don't mean anything.

 

The top 9 SI cars were within a second of each other in times. Pretty fun!

 

Hey... ...wait a minute.

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suck fumes1548534743

Haha ya I read that and thought it didn't make sense. I meant SI times were close and the cars stayed bumper to bumper more so than CMC.

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Den341548534727

I think there are a lot of factors at play here. Using Adams post as a springboard on point number 2.

 

"2 The constant move away from the original CMC rules made the class much more expensive than it ever should have been."

 

I am assuming Adam means the ORIGINAL CMC1 rules with 230 hp. Yes I agree this was a fantastic class and was very easy on equipment etc. But I am not sure if we would be better off if we stuck to that rule set. First thing that comes to mind is Toyo does not make 16 inch tires so that was a change beyond our control. Second problem is unlike many other classes we have multiple platforms to level set. It is hard to keep a constant rule set when new cars are coming out and you are trying to include those cars but not Exclude the older cars. Do you raise all the old cars performance or cut the new car performance. How do you keep the original rules with this dynamic?

This obviously came to a head last year with the elimination of the 2005 and up mustang. Now that we have is set group of cars (whether we like it or not) I think the rules will be much more stable in the coming years.

 

3.The advent of SI.

I think Adam is spot on here. This is the New CMC or MC. It was clear at the Nationals that CMC is the Red headed step child and that SI is the favorite son of NASA. Twice I heard the announcer at the track announce the group A, American Iron Extreme, American Iron and Spec Iron to the grid.......AHHH you forgot CMC.. Freudian slip? NASA is getting caught up in the whole corporate sponsorship and if they can get Ford or Mazda to join in they are all for it. But CMC cannot offer that because our newest car is 11 years old. It is what it is. Our cars are old and there is nothing we can do about that.

SI will have to figure out its own problems in the coming years as the 2011 Mustang is almost 100 HP more powerful than the 2010. Be interested to see how that gets addressed in the coming years.

 

I used to think that cost was a major issue but seeing the cost of SI and it does not seem to bother people. 30K for a SI car? I cant afford that but I am beginning to wonder if cost is a issue? I would be curious what others feel. Is cost a issue? Is it the overall cost, Entry fee, fuel, hotel, etc. Stuff not directly related to CMC.

 

There are several other minor factors at play but I am going to cut this short.

 

In general the class is still great and I cannot imagine racing anything else. I has serious cool factor going on. The cars sound right, they have just enough power to keep you on your toes in the corners they look cool on the track. I have raced a SM and spec 944 and to me they just don't do it for me.

Think regionally not nationally. Do whatever you can to keep the members in your region you have and do whatever you can to pick up a new one or two each year and the class will begin to sell itself.

 

I think what will help the class is any rules adjustments that can be made to keep the cars reliable and on track will do nothing but help. If CMC has a reputation that they are constantly breaking down that does not help the class. My prediction is this years rules session will be much more quiet than in years past.

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D Algozine

Once again, I see things pretty much the way Bob laid them out.

Redheaded step child is right on the mark.

 

But to add a little more

 

It appears the National event is not the only barometer for the entire class. Texas , Midwest, and some of the east coast regional events appear to be well attended, as I sure there are others as well. We have 11 signed up for ABCC (Midwest) this weekend.

SI is growing in a few regions, but not so much in others. Midwest has 1-2 entries per race this year. Not unlike AI or CMC and any other class, there are peaks and valleys.

So, don't look at one National event , or one region and declare the class dead. There can be dozens of different reasons why racers don't make the trip to a National.

 

Close racing is a result of quality drivers , and a balanced / equal rule set.........it doesn't get much closer then some of the Midwest regional events in the last few years.

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t500hps

In 2011 I had a couple buddies that ran CMC and came out to run HPDE and see what it was all about. Early last year, I bought a prepped CMC car and have been racing with them since. It's been a blast but alot of it is the guys in the paddock. Mid Atlantic car counts had been around 10 but this year a variety of things happened to really lower that.......Since E Championships will be at our home track, VIR, I fully expect we'll have good car counts for all of next year.

 

I really wish I wasn't on a tablet right now. We have some decent videos from recent races AND I made posters this summer busting everyones balls that had everyone sore from laughter (ill haveto post them from work tomorrow)

 

Point is, make it fun OFF the track. Allof us camp at the track. We spend 2+ hours in the car and the other 46 hours bullchitting with our competitors. We make it fun and even spend time together AWAY from the racetrack.

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Bigt

The biggest part is the expense is rising to keep the older cars going. Parts are getting harder to find along with new donor chassis. If we are not allowed to strengthen the cars as the cars get older and need major repairs drivers will just update to a newer car and class. I have even tossed the idea around at looking into outlaw vintage class as my car is really starting to so its age and may have a season or two left before it will need major repairs to the chassis. The suspension mounting points are starting to pull pinch welds are starting to separate along with normal wear and tear from the years of racing. I hope in future rules discussions there will talk about what can be done to keep the cars going and not fight and argue about issues. If not as the cars get older and harder to keep on the track the class will be absorbed or just fall to the way side.

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Dustin M.

People getting butthurt over nothing is part of it IMO. Just show up and drive and try not to hit anything too hard. Then again, it's kind of the same as just trying to lure someone to the track in HPDE1 isn't it? You either want to or you don't. All the guys I've bumped into both RM and TX have been awesome so I'd really hate to see this die.

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D Algozine

Couple thoughts to help solidify and rally the CMC racers and potential racers from all four corners of this great country:

 

1) Ditch the exclusive CMC web site and join in with ALL of the NASA racers and potential racers at the NASA forum website. I know the history of the class and how it came to be, but if you want more mainstream exposure get on the NASA site. How many perspective and current racers and HPDE folks kick around the NASA forum.......? At the very least have this site as a direct link if you click on the CMC section at the NASA site.

 

2) Texas is by far the largest group of CMC racers and they have there own local web site. Again bring all that enthusiasm and experience for ALL to benefit to a central location.

 

3) If you signed on as a regional director or Series director you need to be directly involved with racing in some form or fashion consistently.

Promotion of the series can be as simple as saying Hello to folks at the race track.

 

4) As previously stated, most racers stick with a particular race class likely because of the people they race with, as much if not more then the rules of the class.

 

5) DONT'S

Don't be the group with cars broke down too often. Hard to promote a class if you're not on the track or getting dragged in on a hook a lot.

 

Don't be the race group who regularly fills out those funny little forms after a race (that involves heated discussions and finger pointing)

 

Don't hesitate to share your double secret set up, especially with a newbie. This is amateur racing. Too many TRICK items and your either flirting with cheating or you belong in the pro's.

 

Don't promote spending your way to the podium - Not that kind of race class.

 

 

 

Obviously your opinion may vary

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Dustin M.

2) Texas is by far the largest group of CMC racers and they have there own local web site. Again bring all that enthusiasm and experience for ALL to benefit to a central location.

 

I joined the TX site myself because of how active it is. That and I actually know a few people down there now. It's what this site should be IMO.

 

Don't be the race group who regularly fills out those funny little forms after a race (that involves heated discussions and finger pointing)

 

Do you realize which forum you've just posted in?

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Al F.

I've never felt the NASA Championships was a good barometer for a particular class' health, and moreso now that it is broken into two. CMC has never shown particularly well at those events.

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wastntim

As we move towards the next rules season review, I think the Directors should be focused on:

 

1) Opening up the rules so that it is easier and more inviting for the racers to get involved including allowing the older cars to update so they are more even with the newer cars. One way to accomplish this would be to open up the engine options so that the older cars can use more modern engines. If someone has 3rd gen and wants to drop an LS1 in, let them. The fourth gens are running the engine, so there is no reason to not allow the same in a third gen. If a 4th gen can run coilovers, why not a third gen?

 

2) Allow for any changes that make these cars more reliable and make them easier to fix, including allowing for more aftermarket parts that increase durability, i.e. torque arms, etc.

 

 

I know people are going to jump all over this post, but they need to realize that spending money that keeps the car on the track is a lot easier to swallow than paying for a race weekend and breaking down halfway through the first day.

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