What is going on with CMC?

[suck fumes1548534743]

I have longtubes but one has to be removed to pull the tranny out which is a royal pain. Even though the Dyno numbers may not be different you have to remember the Dyno is just a tool, you can't base your cars performance solely off a computer read out. I always test parts on the track and I can tell you that longtubes will give you more top end on really big tracks. The stock manifolds act as a restrictor on the higher RPM range also.

[blk96gt]

I understand you are in favor. And the $3500 is the true costs here v. $300.

 

My point is that it appears you are muddling your cars "needs" verses the needs of a platform.

 

I am not in favor of requiring this RCR to have an AFR test. That goes back to the user needing to do all their own homework and evaluations for what is their best needs.

Holy shit. Where did I say $300? My whole point for including the cost was to say I literally have a stock rebuilt engine, not some super special blueprinted block, blessed by the hand of God during the machining process while I sacrificed a goat in the corner of the machine shop to ensure maximum horsepower. I was stating how much I spent on machine work (something I think at least 95% of CMCers can't do) and pistons (which anyone can order off of Summit for cheap), which are probably the two most important things for an engine rebuild. The machine work was nothing special, and $500 is not out of the ordinary for having machine work done on a shortblock. I found cheaper and I found way more expensive. How much you spend on the rest depends on your skill level and whether you want to go with stock mains, rod bolts, bearings, etc. I don't know what everyone's skill level is, so I put the two costs that were somewhat fixed, and didn't necessarily depend on mechanical abilities. I didn't set out with the goal to build an engine to the max to make the most power. I found out what size/dish pistons were stock, and then re-used everything else I could, with the goal getting it done as cheap as possible with someone else doing the work. What I couldn't re-use I bought stock replacement (main bolts, bearings, etc.). If I would have had them only assemble the long block vs. having them do everything, the price would have been somewhere around $2300-$2400 if I remember right, including machine work.

 

How am I muddling my car's needs? I don't even plan on installing a TB. I drive a '96, which has a return style fuel system just like yours, and I have a FPR. AFR is not a major issue on my car at this point. There has been at least one case of someone with a 99+ having issues with AFR (not me), that is why I raised concerns.

 

I thought I had mentioned in my earlier post (where I mentioned going through two motors) that my rebuilds were caused by that chip being installed. After re-reading it, I can see that it may not have been clear that that was the cause. So let me clarify now. AFTER I found (and removed) the chip and had a second motor rebuilt I had a 13.5 AFR. I was able to fix that using FPR and 24 lbs. injectors, although if I drive the car too many times without cutting power to the ECU it will start running lean. I thought it was pretty clear that I have no major issues with AFR on my car, but I guess it wasn't.

 

All I said from the beginning is that I'd like to see a before/after AFR for a TB install, because it COULD cause issues. I never said it would, and I don't think I ever mentioned that a dyno should be required. I raised a concern I had and you immediately became defensive and said that it's a bolt-on and you can adjust AFR with an FPR. I again mentioned that the 99+ cars can't adjust fuel pressure, somehow morphed into me muddling with something or another. I wanted to raise awareness to everyone who has a 4.6 that this COULD cause an issue. I have no idea whether it will or not, that is why I asked for before/after data. I don't care if you or anyone else uses a throttle body to make power. What I do care about is that someone installs this not realizing it *MAY* have a long term impact on the life of the engine if it causes the engine to run leaner. Like you said, not everyone is a mechanic, so you can't expect everyone to understand what happens when you bolt on an aftermarket part.

[Dustin M.]

If you have to keep wiping the ECMs memory, perhaps you can try unplugging the O2s and see how your AFRs hold up with just tweaking the AFPR as you have been. Seems to me it'd be more consistent that way.

[Smike]

Holy shit. Where did I say $300? My whole point for including the cost was to say I literally have a stock rebuilt engine, not some super special blueprinted block, blessed by the hand of God during the machining process while I sacrificed a goat in the corner of the machine shop to ensure maximum horsepower. I was stating how much I spent on machine work (something I think at least 95% of CMCers can't do) and pistons (which anyone can order off of Summit for cheap), which are probably the two most important things for an engine rebuild. The machine work was nothing special, and $500 is not out of the ordinary for having machine work done on a shortblock. I found cheaper and I found way more expensive. How much you spend on the rest depends on your skill level and whether you want to go with stock mains, rod bolts, bearings, etc. I don't know what everyone's skill level is, so I put the two costs that were somewhat fixed, and didn't necessarily depend on mechanical abilities. I didn't set out with the goal to build an engine to the max to make the most power. I found out what size/dish pistons were stock, and then re-used everything else I could, with the goal getting it done as cheap as possible with someone else doing the work. What I couldn't re-use I bought stock replacement (main bolts, bearings, etc.). If I would have had them only assemble the long block vs. having them do everything, the price would have been somewhere around $2300-$2400 if I remember right, including machine work.

 

How am I muddling my car's needs? I don't even plan on installing a TB. I drive a '96, which has a return style fuel system just like yours, and I have a FPR. AFR is not a major issue on my car at this point. There has been at least one case of someone with a 99+ having issues with AFR (not me), that is why I raised concerns.

 

I thought I had mentioned in my earlier post (where I mentioned going through two motors) that my rebuilds were caused by that chip being installed. After re-reading it, I can see that it may not have been clear that that was the cause. So let me clarify now. AFTER I found (and removed) the chip and had a second motor rebuilt I had a 13.5 AFR. I was able to fix that using FPR and 24 lbs. injectors, although if I drive the car too many times without cutting power to the ECU it will start running lean. I thought it was pretty clear that I have no major issues with AFR on my car, but I guess it wasn't.

 

All I said from the beginning is that I'd like to see a before/after AFR for a TB install, because it COULD cause issues. I never said it would, and I don't think I ever mentioned that a dyno should be required. I raised a concern I had and you immediately became defensive and said that it's a bolt-on and you can adjust AFR with an FPR. I again mentioned that the 99+ cars can't adjust fuel pressure, somehow morphed into me muddling with something or another. I wanted to raise awareness to everyone who has a 4.6 that this COULD cause an issue. I have no idea whether it will or not, that is why I asked for before/after data. I don't care if you or anyone else uses a throttle body to make power. What I do care about is that someone installs this not realizing it *MAY* have a long term impact on the life of the engine if it causes the engine to run leaner. Like you said, not everyone is a mechanic, so you can't expect everyone to understand what happens when you bolt on an aftermarket part.

 

The TB/P is $300 and doesn't require the motor come out for goat sacrifices.

 

Thank you for clarifying your side. It's up to that driver/car owner to figure out their needs, constraints, and knowledge.

 

Ah, RACING has a long term impact on the life of the engine.

[cozog1548534733]

I sacrificed a goat in the corner of the machine shop to ensure maximum horsepower.

 

furiously scribbling notes on how to make max horsepower

[D Algozine]

I sacrificed a goat in the corner of the machine shop to ensure maximum horsepower.

 

furiously scribbling notes on how to make max horsepower

 

I thought it was chickens for max HP and goats for God like driving skills

[Dustin M.]

I sacrificed a goat in the corner of the machine shop to ensure maximum horsepower.

 

furiously scribbling notes on how to make max horsepower

 

That's easy, just don't buy a Ford.

[ShadowBolt]

I was not happy when I found out Kevin, without headers makes more power than I can with them. I built a high compression freash rebuild with timing adjuster and long tubes and made less power than the original engine made. When I blew it up because I missed a shift and I had not used hardened oil pump gears I got a junk yard engine, pulled the heads and had the valves done then put it back together (with hardened oil pump gears). This current engine smokes at startup uses oil and it made more power than the new one did. I'm still down on torque. If the TB will give us the power we need I would remove those damn long tubes ASAP. I have to pull the engine to r&r a head! I spent a ton on an A-5 so I could change a clutch at the track if I had to with the long tubes. I was not going to drive to Hallett and lose a clutch on Friday and be screwed for the weekend. Long tubes suck on the 4.6 Mustang

 

JJ

[cozog1548534733]

I sacrificed a goat in the corner of the machine shop to ensure maximum horsepower.

 

furiously scribbling notes on how to make max horsepower

 

I thought it was chickens for max HP and goats for God like driving skills

 

THAT explains the feathers I saw in your suit.