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How to reconcile West coast vs. East coast for Nationals

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greg f

I think a video would be an outstanding idea. The only way to properly promote the class here would be to convince everyone that enough cars brought in to the class would make it fun. Now the concern is the overall usefullness of their racecar. They want to run SCCA IT rungroups as well as the combined Spec Miata/ 944 grid I have proposed. We also have a PCA grid that has really dropped of in numbers for the last two years. I am hoping that a lower cost Porsche racing car will bring the numbers back. Particularly since they could run three groups a day if they wanted. Greg F

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bpanther
So let's do this. Let's make a concerted effort to spread the word across the country about the 944 spec concept. Tell all the NASA and SCCA chapters and show them our websites and rules.

Grassroots magazine write ups?

 

Come on, guys. We made this class happen in AZ, then SoCal, now NorCal.........Greg Fordhal's group could easily conform to the SCCA's Spec 944 rules.

 

NASA Rocky Mountain will be conforming to the 944Spec rules. People here are excited about the class. We haven't had an event yet for our region and we've already got 2-3 cars!!!

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Tim Comeau

Now THAT'S outstanding news Dave!

Let us know if there's ANYTHING we can do to help build the class with you guys. Can you put me in touch with those planning on building the 944's there?

---------------------------------------------------------------------------

 

Greg,

Since there's no NASA chapter up in Seattle, build the Seattle Group's 944's to the SCCA rules and run them in the SCCA's Spec 944 class. They'll only be racing against each other then. Those rules are almost exactly the same as ours in NASA's 944 spec class and that would contribute to our numbers at a future National Championship event!

It can be difficult to get some guys to "downgrade" their 944's, but the close, cheap racing is well worth it..... and that same close racing attracts more drivers!

The ITS cars can do what others have done in SoCal. It works!

Take the non-spec "go faster" stuff off the 944's and sell it off to get the cheaper STOCK parts!

A 944 that runs on 7" and 8" Fuchs can sell those for $700-$750, and buy 3 sets of spec cookies or phonies!

Take off the billet control arms, sell 'em, buy stock ones.

Lather, rinse, repeat.......

Stock 944 parts are cheap.

The car owner might even end up with some extra jingle in his/her pocket to go towards entry fees!

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bpanther
Now THAT'S outstanding news Dave!

Let us know if there's ANYTHING we can do to help build the class with you guys. Can you put me in touch with those planning on building the 944's there?

 

Porschephile 924 (Geoff) - Are you out there?

 

Geoff Shilling has volunteered to help kick start the class and has a good idea of some of the people wanting to give it a go.

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944 cup
Dave,

I'm being misunderstood, perhaps partly my fault. I'm not trying to have you undo anything that you've built. Keep building your racing series. You'll have your same series, the same drivers, maybe even the same cars.

 

I'm not asking for the 944 Cup series to be "reformatted", or their existing rules changed. I'm asking for the 944 spec class to be introduced on the East Coast and pushed as the standard class for future National Championships.

 

Tim:

 

Your pushing for the East to adopt the 944 spec rule set to be the standard for the future, so no matter what your motivation, that's changing what we are doing here in the East.

 

Adding another class here for the 944 spec cars only serves to dilute the competition by adding a class for fairly similar cars already provided for in the series. We like close competition and large fields in a class, and that's why are rule set was developed as it is. Plus we want to give 944's and similar models, a place to race their cars, and that includes most front-engined Porsches like the 2.7L, 951's, 968, 944S, etc.

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944 cup
Some of the East coast competitors that I have seen place quite high in the standings are not using the proper interpretation of the rules. Several of the cars are using a 2.7l engine stating that they are ITS prepared when SCCA only allows the 2.7l engine to be used in an 88 model year car at a higher base weight than the 2.5 cars. So stuffing a 2.7l in an 83 944 isn't SCCA legal, but they still run them in 944 Cup.

 

Greg:

 

The 944 Cup rules permit swapping engines bewteen an '89 (2.7l)and a '83(2.5L), and the like. The minimum weight just follows the engine size, not the year of the chasis. While this differs from SCCA and PCA, we deemed this an improvement giving drivers the flexibility to drive what the have and make the needed adjustments to level the playing field.

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Tim Comeau

Dave,

Yes, It's a change, but only the addition of one class. Once drivers see the rules, they'll join the class, just like ALL the different groups have out here. It will help attendance at your events just like it has out here.

BTW, Nice job getting the race reports into Grassroots Mag.

It's cool that you provide "everybody's welcome" groups to run in for all the water-cooled Porsches. It would be an even cooler thing if we could have spec cars converging from all over the country to have a National Title Race on an even footing. I'll keep working towards that goal.

 

944 spec \

Spec 944 - We might be outdriven, but we won't be outspent!

944 GSR /

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944-Spec#94
Now THAT'S outstanding news Dave!

Let us know if there's ANYTHING we can do to help build the class with you guys. Can you put me in touch with those planning on building the 944's there?

 

Porschephile 924 (Geoff) - Are you out there?

 

Geoff Shilling has volunteered to help kick start the class and has a good idea of some of the people wanting to give it a go.

 

 

I put Geoffs's info up on the 944 spec website under contacts.

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944-Spec#94
Some of the East coast competitors that I have seen place quite high in the standings are not using the proper interpretation of the rules. Several of the cars are using a 2.7l engine stating that they are ITS prepared when SCCA only allows the 2.7l engine to be used in an 88 model year car at a higher base weight than the 2.5 cars. So stuffing a 2.7l in an 83 944 isn't SCCA legal, but they still run them in 944 Cup.

 

Greg:

 

The 944 Cup rules permit swapping engines bewteen an '89 (2.7l)and a '83(2.5L), and the like. The minimum weight just follows the engine size, not the year of the chasis. While this differs from SCCA and PCA, we deemed this an improvement giving drivers the flexibility to drive what the have and make the needed adjustments to level the playing field.

 

Dave this was a very smart idea. Now personally I'd rather not have 2.7L in a 944 spec class, but I HATE the way SCCA IT does not allow you to do simple update/backdate stuff similar to this. If you let the 2.7L motor in the class with extra weight then it should be legal to put a 2.7L in any year 944 so long as it meets the 2.7L weight. Even little adjustments like this are good reason your series is as popular as it is.

 

I guess I do not see the need to have a 944 spec class in Virgina. What is probably the best way however is to offer 944 spec as one of prep levels allowed in 944 cup. Currently there is SCCA ITS, PCA stock I & H

My thinking is to add 944 spec rules as another prep level complete with toyo as a spec tire. Allow these cars to run in 944 cup side by side with ITS and I or H cars. First guess says 2550 to 2600lbs as a race weight even them up with the current cars.

 

So then If you want to race 944 cup you can do it in an ITS car, PCA Car or 944 spec car. There would still be 944 cup and 944 super cup points races. Seems this way drivers have one more option on car prep levels.

 

I believe Todd Daubert has 944 that comes very close to 944 spec trim prep levels. I believe he got the car from or through you about 5-6 months ago. He bought it as DE car to replace his 996. Anyway from what I now of his car it seems like it would be perfect 944 spec car that could run in 944 cup.

 

I guess I see it like this overall. Back in 2000 & 2001 there were only two types of racing 944 in country in any numbers. Those were SCCA ITS prepared cars and PCA Stock class cars. 944 cup gathered these classes together tweaked the rules to make them equal and had a lot of fun. Now 4 years later there are 3 types of 944 race cars in number. SCCA ITS, PCA stock class, and now 944 spec. Seems to me it is time to add that 944 spec prep level to 944 cup conglomeration.

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Candi

Just a couple questions for Fordahl, and comments on the Cup-Cars.

 

944's have been racing in a few different classes for many years. Just finding the right fit for the $ spent was what brought about the Spec-944/944-Spec cars in . We were running them in RS, but could not compete with the BMW's. I have also seen them in ITE. Infact the 1st 2 ITE cars that I am aware of were built at Sears Point. It's just all about the mighty dollar.

 

I don't remember what class Baker ran his in the National's. Do you Greg? That was ages ago.

 

Greg, I haven't looked at the NW region race results up there, but how many licensed 944 driver's do you have at your SCCA road races? Guess I should pull out some old Sportscar rags. What is the name of the other org. up there, Confrence, or someting like that? Are there 944's running with them? What do you think it would take dollar wise take one of your cars and turn it into a slower Spec-944? What is the going price for a well done 944/ITA up there?

 

As for the 944 Cup Series, I am glad it is going well, and hope they continue to grow. Infact we just did re-did 1 of their cars that was purchased from back there, and it is now a Spec-944 with a few cup-car decals still on it. We spoke to Dave early on when we started the class here. The Cup-cars are built to different specs, so they are different as day and night. They are simply a different class than the 944-Spec in NASA.

 

Hope to hear back from you Greg. Are you crewing for anyone at the Jan. double national this year.

 

Happy Holidays to you all!

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944 cup
Dave,

Yes, It's a change, but only the addition of one class. Once drivers see the rules, they'll join the class, just like ALL the different groups have out here. It will help attendance at your events just like it has out here.

 

Tim: Are you revisiting the proposal to have a NASA National 944 series with 3 classes: 944 Spec, 944 Cup, and 944 Super Cup Class, both here in the East, and out West, and everywhere else in between?

 

It would be an even cooler thing if we could have spec cars converging from all over the country to have a National Title Race on an even footing. I'll keep working towards that goal.

 

And even more cooler would be if we let the 944 Cup cars be a part of your National plans.

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greg f wrote:

 

I guess I do not see the need to have a 944 spec class in Virgina. What is probably the best way however is to offer 944 spec as one of prep levels allowed in 944 cup. Currently there is SCCA ITS, PCA stock I & H

My thinking is to add 944 spec rules as another prep level complete with toyo as a spec tire. Allow these cars to run in 944 cup side by side with ITS and I or H cars. First guess says 2550 to 2600lbs as a race weight even them up with the current cars. Seems to me it is time to add that 944 spec prep level to 944 cup conglomeration.

 

 

Greg:

 

That could be doable at first glance. The 944 Cup adds a spec prep level and 944 Spec adds a PCA spec prep level and a SCCA ITS prep level (per Cup rules), using weight to equalize. That would make for a good National Runoff. Would the West Coast go for that?

 

On the suggested weight , very close already as 944 Cup PCA car is 2650.

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944-Spec#94

 

 

The 944 Cup adds a spec prep level and 944 Spec adds a PCA spec prep level and a SCCA ITS prep level (per Cup rules), using weight to equalize. That would make for a good National Runoff. Would the West Coast go for that?

 

On the suggested weight , very close already as 944 Cup PCA car is 2650.

 

Well at first glance that is perfect. The down side is it may be a shot in the dark to know what is the "right" weight unless you actually look at on track comparisons of top notch driver/car combos. I believe it took a bit to equalize thing between PCA and SCCA cars. I think that you guys have it down now. The issue with Nationals is that this probably would be the first time a top notch 944 spec car & driver ran against a top notch 944 cup car. So lets say the spec car is allowed at 2600lbs even. That may prove to be too heavy given the stickier hooisers the cup car guys run inspite of the weight break. However make the spec cars 2550 lbs and now you see the spec cars running rings around the heavy cup cars.

 

So it can be hard to guess the right weight. Being optimistic however a 944 spec needs to be 2550 to 2650lbs. I don't think at 2650 they will be faster than PCA cars due to our lesser tire and wheels given the same hp levels. Bring a 944 spec to under 2550lbs would very hard as I could probably do it, but few others. There is little easy weight to remove so 2550 is pushing the lower limit unless you allow light weight replacement parts. Of course this then starts to make the spec class just a bit less attractive due to added cost.

 

Personally I would love a "test match" between top spec cars and top cup cars. This would give a chance to see how the cars match up and then be able to "pick" a fair race weight. Sadly most of these cars are seperated by 2500 miles.

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greg f

Interesting, I read the 944 Cup rules that are online and saw no special allowance to install a 2.7 in an 83 944. The SCCA rules are to prevent a creative feller, ( like me) from installing a more powerful, hard to find engine in my 83 car, which is far lighter than an 89 chassis, and re-distributing the weight as I need to to improve the weight distribution. The 86 up chassis are almost 100lb heavier due to small structure changes. For the future of the class I would not want to see the 2.7l engine be the engine of choice. SCCA also has chosen to allow the 2.5l 16V 944 in ITS at a higher weight with the same restriction, I.E. the engine must be in a 87-88 chassis to be legal, at a higher weight. This allows me to fairly compete with them with my 2.5l, without the expense of procuring a 2.5 16V engine for my 83.

 

Candy, Baker raced an S2 in SCCA and Firehawk competition. We have 11 licensed drivers with prepared cars, but we can never seem to get everyone out at the same time. Mostly it is Matt Chambers, Dan Antilla, Kim Hiskey and myself doing battle up here. Tm C and I are in complete agreement that 944 racing should be cheap fun, what we don't agree on all of the time is what is cheaper, a known bad stock part or an improved racing part that doesn't promote DNF's. Everything we do to the engines here is about reliability, not power. The chassis, when prepared to SCCA IT rules, is not expensive and needs no real service. In fact the differences to the 944 spec rules are not staggering. Most all of the update/backdate is the same in both sets of rules. (I will be working most of January on the new Crawford/Porsche Daytona Prototype recently purchased by Alex Job to run at the 24. The chassis is great, but the electronics need much more integration and tweeking. ) Greg F

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944 cup
Interesting, I read the 944 Cup rules that are online and saw no special allowance to install a 2.7 in an 83 944.

Greg F

 

Here ya go Greg:

 

2006 RULES

In an attempt to create parity between the various classes, and yet minimize modifications, the following preparation rules will apply. All cars must meet the preparation rules of either SCCA or PCA for the car's declared Stock or Improved Touring Classes with the exceptions listed below:

 

(a) Car and driver must meet minimum weights combined (see chart below). Weight requirements, which include driver, vary depending on the SCCA or PCA Class. Cars will be weighed upon their first event.

(b) PCA cars may remove any part of the car interior and delete A/C, heater, and headlamp systems related parts.

© Updating or backdating by model type is allowed.

(d) ..........

 

Provision © intends to allow drivers to mix and mingle parts from different years.

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Tim Comeau

Hey, It's cool as hell that we have representatives from all 4 of the major 944 groups in the USA talking about this National Competition!

 

Ah, yes. Mr Freddy Baker....... I have the posters celebrating his achievements. (I collect the factory racing posters.)

---------------------------------------------------------------

Greg,

If replacing a stock part leads to less DNF's, it probably falls under our new "General Rules" paragraphs and we're all for it. These are right at the beginning of our 2005 rules. Basically, an unlisted mod is ok for reliability, aesthetics, access to systems, safety, as long as it offers NO PERFORMANCE ADVANTAGE WHATSOEVER. This is how we ended much of the bickering about small things. The old rule of,"if it ain't in the rules, you can't do it" was short sighted and unhelpful in building the class, establishing comraderie, and developing the 944's. It's a shame, but we fixed that.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

 

Dave,

If you can continue to grow the 944 Cup and Super Cup across the country, more power to you, buddy. Seriously. I wish you more success.

 

If I tried to introduce those "loose groups as opposed to a tight single class" out here on the West Coast, I might be shot by the people loyal to the 944 spec concept! They wouldn't go for a bunch of performance variables and a sliding weight penalty scale. We've never had to deal with our cars like that because they are built from the git go to a single set of class rules. Very simple.

Introducing a "944 turbo only" Spec class on the West Coast with tight rules similar to ours would seem possible until you consider our class' population right now.

Sorensen, Yousko, Richmond, Wright, Anselmo, Rickard are all former 951 drivers who came over to the 944 spec class because of the tight rules and spending restrictions. They don't want all the variables that the 944 Cup groups allow. Every car has the same engine and must weigh the same weight, 2600 w/ driver. Our guys out here have already been introduced to and sold on the pure stuff. Tight spec class racing in nearly identical cars. I just don't believe the 944 Cup groups would sell here because of that.

Again, we couldn't have a Nat. Comp. yet because we're not comparing apples to apples. The 944 spec class would be comprised of West Coast guys only. Your Cup Groups would be populated and won by East Coasters. Not really any new or bigger bragging rights there!

Again, Please keep building your series, but we'd love to have a chance to run against some East Coast 944 spec cars. Your series seems the most logical home for these cars at this point. We'll push for the East Coast NASA chapters to build the 944 spec class cars and hopefully you'll get some more entry fees based on your ability to host great events.

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944 cup

Dave,

If you can continue to grow the 944 Cup and Super Cup across the country, more power to you, buddy.

 

I just don't believe the 944 Cup groups would sell here. We'll push for the East Coast NASA chapters to build the 944 spec class cars and hopefully you'll get some more entry fees based on your ability to host great events.

 

Tim:

 

Thanks for the well wishes. We do plan to have two more 944 Cup Chapters online for 2006. On 944 spec classes in the East, for similar reasons you think the Cup rules can't work out West, the same is said here in the East for 944 spec, just won't sell.

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Tim Comeau

We'll see.......

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samdog

Tim,

 

I'm new to the 944 Cup series and we recently had some correspondence on the Rennlist board. The reason I think that Dave feels so strongly about your recipe not working here is the same reason you feel ours won't work there. Too many people have already built their cars to one spec or the other. I just started running in Cup last year and I'm set to run the whole season this year. All of these guys, including me, have set up their cars to a set of rules much different than 944 Spec. To backdate our cars to that rule set would require a bunch of money and time and that isn't going to work. Same goes for you guys modding your cars to fit with ours. Yes it probably does cost more money to run at the front in 944 Cup but at the same time, it is part of the fun for me at least to modify the car within the rule set to have the best possible combination. After the initial investment, it shouldn't cost any more than running a spec car.

 

The exception to that rule is probably tires. To run at the front of Cup, it seems you need to have a new set of Hoosiers about twice a season. The Toyos are probably cheaper and likely last longer. I would be in favor of a spec tire for 944 Cup but I know this subject has been broached before among Cup guys and they don't like it. That is probably the single biggest difference between Spec and Cup cars.

 

I think the suggestion of running Cup vs. Spec cars against one another at Nationals is a great idea. You say it won't work because you don't know how much weight to take away from Spec or add to Cup. Well first of all, asking Spec to take weight out would be stupid since it is much more difficult to take weight out than it is to add it. I don't know if the Cup guys would go for it, but why not add weight to the Cup cars to equal things out? We all agree on how much weight would even the field and give it a shot. If Cup runs all over Spec or vice versa, we change the formula for next year. You could call it the NASA 944 Championship or something like that. I don't see why you couldn't handicap one series or the other to make it work. I would think we could probably even do some testing with a Cup front runner on Toyos vs. Hoosiers on a practice day to try to get a good feel for the speed difference.

 

Of course, this being my first year I may not even make Nationals so I'm speaking for a lot of other people but it seems we could all compromise to make for a really fun time in Ohio with just a little bit of respect for the other side. I don't know you but I know Dave. He works tirelessly to promote our series and is a great guy. I'm sure you both want the best for your series and having a National Championship can only be good for both.

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samdog

I was giving this some thought and I think I know a way to put my money where my mouth is. My wife and I are expanding our retail company and are currently coming on board with Longacre Racing, I/O Port, Day Motorsports, Carbotech, Motive, Hans, G-Force and several others. This isn't an ad as you can tell, I haven't posted the name of my company. Anyway, we are going to Sponsor 944 Cup this year. I would be interested in sponsoring spec as well. I'm offering to purchase a set of Toyo RA-1 tires and have one of our top guys (assuming I can find someone) run them back to back at a practice day against Hoosiers (considered the best tire, I think we can all agree). If I can't find anyone willing, I'll do it myself but I'm admittedly not a top cup guy.....yet

 

We can take that time difference and figure out how much weight will equalize the two classes. Tires are going to be single biggest difference I think we can all agree.

 

In addition, I will sponsor the championship race for the fastest 944 in the country and pay the winner a substantial prize. I'm envisioning contributing 10% of all proceeds from 944 Cup and Spec purchases (or something similar) toward the prize. This benefits my business and all of you as the more you buy, the bigger the prize. Plus, I will offer things to these groups at prices that no one will be able to beat. If you want us to carry something that you don't see, just ask and we'll get it. If this becomes a very popular idea, I'd even be willing to raise the prize amount.

 

As this is going to cost my company easily $1000+, I would ask that this cover my sponsorship costs for both series for the year. What do you guys think, can we make something like this work? The above is just a suggestion, I'm willing to work with both series to make it work.

 

Steve Lewis

[email protected]

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The Original

As a 3rd party observer it's quite clear that everyone thinks their idea is the best and should be adopted (even as a trial) by the others. Both Cup and Spec have suggested a "class swap" by running their class in another's area.

 

The results...

944 Cup has agreed that a Spec class could be explored.

944 Spec has said a Cup class simply couldn't work.

 

Contrary to popular belief, neither series is the end-all for 944 racing. If one was inclined to keep score, however, one might come to the conclusision that the Spec director thinks it is. Is it really so hard for both series to adopt a modified rule set as part of a different class? The sky will not fall if the Cup has 3 classes and the Spec has 2... or would it?

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samdog

Actually if you think about it, Cup already allows Spec cars. If guys want to get together and run a spec series within Cup they can do that already. The ONLY change that I can see that they would have to make to their cars would be to run 50 LBS of ballast to meet minimum weight. In reality they wouldn't be able to run at the front of the pack in Cup anyway so the weight would never be checked (only the top 3 are checked). If someone wants to step up and organize themselves into a Spec series, find participants etc, they can do that right now and run in the 944 Cup group. They would be racing within their own group of course but if it is the "right" way to go, it is available right now in the mid-Atlantic region. That is the real beauty of Cup, you can run an ITS car, PCA I or H, or even a Spec car. With Spec, you have to build a car specifically for that series and you can't use it anywhere else.

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Tim Comeau

Steve,

If you built a car to specs, you could run it, as is, in the Cup series as a 944 spec car, which would only compete against other 944 spec cars. The other 944's would run concurrently but not compete with the spec cars. Or you could try to find a weight amount that could have them compete with the others classes in the Cup group. When it comes time for the Nationals, take the 50 lbs or whatever it is, out of the car and you're ready to compete on an equal basis with the rest of the 944's . You can run a 944 spec car anywhere there is a NASA event because it's an official NASA class.

BTW, I counted yesterday and there are over 70 completed 944 spec cars with a handful more being built right now.

 

Drivers currently in the Cup series with eligible 944's could convert their cars to spec and probably make some money off the go fast parts, as I posted earlier.

 

Guessing at an agreed upon weight penalty this year, only to try it again next year if it fails is not going to fly. That's 2 years worth of travel expenses for a guessing game. Spec is spec. No guessing.

 

Original,

The sky wouldn't fall if 944 Cup ran with 3 classes. They have open groups consisting of several classes already. If 944 spec ran with 2 classes, it wouldn't be spec., would it?

According to "popular belief" (not being a smart alec here), over 70 cars completed in 4 different sanctioning bodies is pretty strong evidence that 944 spec, in its various forms, is the end-all to 944 racing in the U.S.

 

Dave has done a great job of gathering a bunch of existing 944 race cars and trying to even them out. We started with a clean slate and kept the rules tight to make sure we wouldn't have to even them out. Make sense? If we loosen our rules, it will cost money. The 944 spec rules are no doubt cheaper than the 944 Cup Group rules. True?

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samdog

If the 944 Spec guys are not willing to be flexible, why run at Nationals at all? You will be driving 2000 miles to race the same guys you already race at home. I was trying to suggest something that might be a compromise for everyone. You want everyone else but yourself to compromise to come and run with you.

 

To claim that 944 Spec is the end all to 944 racing when the Cup group is so strong here is ludicrous. You are doing your series a disservice by insulting the guys you are trying to recruit. Once again, I think that the Spec series is a good idea but you can't expect people to throw away their fully built existing race cars and thousands of dollars overnight. By running some sort of a compromise at first, you open the series up to a homologation whereby maybe, eventually, you win and everything becomes Spec. Or maybe, the spec guys see how much fun it is to run with Cup and they decide Cup is the end all to 944 racing.

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The Original
I was trying to suggest something that might be a compromise for everyone. You want everyone else but yourself to compromise to come and run with you.

 

To claim that 944 Spec is the end all to 944 racing when the Cup group is so strong here is ludicrous.

 

I think he hit the nail on the head here. The Cup guys seem willing to compromise but you say that's because they already have two classes so an extra won't matter. You say the Spec can't accept another class because it wouldn't be spec. What about an additional class that's not part of the Spec points, standings and championship? It is really that hard to allow another group, we'll call it a guest group, to run with you?

 

With respect to the comments about Spec being the end all up 944 racing... well that's just plain egotistical, not to mention silly. You throw around the number of cars at 70. I went to the Cup site and counted the Cup cars (note: not Super Cup) that have run over the last fours years in the Mid-Atlantic region and they too had 70. Now that's one region and one sanctioning body. You add in the SouthEast chapter and that number gets higher. According to you, this doesn't count because not all the cars have equal trim. Well in MA, 10 cars alone competed in PCA I trim in one weekend. Based on your site, you had 5 or less in half your weekends. How is the Spec the end all if you've got a handful of cars spread of various regions?

 

One could argue that Spec is more about dilution (across geographics), not the Cup (as you claim about trim levels). It's very clear that everything is your way or the highway... were you perhaps an only child? I'm still not sure why both parties can't meet in the middle.

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