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Al Watson

2019 RCRs for the 2020 Rulebook

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Al Watson

For those interested in submitting a rule change request heres the procedure:  

 

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Al Watson

Current list:

RCR-AIX-010519 - allow frame mods/notches anywhere not just rear frame only and also set limit on %of oem frame that must remain.

RCR-AI-033119 - increase Ai weight to power ratio

RCR-AI-040119 - allow 315 tires in Ai

 

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brucebyerly
On 4/4/2019 at 6:26 AM, Al Watson said:

Current list:

RCR-AIX-010519 - allow frame mods/notches anywhere not just rear frame only and also set limit on %of oem frame that must remain.

RCR-AI-033119 - increase Ai weight to power ratio

RCR-AI-040119 - allow 315 tires in Ai

Don’t know about frame mods. No opinion. 
 

increasing power?? Why?

315 tires? Why? 
 

I want to see AI stay current and avoid the A sedan virus, but faster cars with bigger tires just means more expense no matter how you slice it. 
 

I’ve heard an argument that it’s harder to restrict the later coyote engines but I seen no evidence. 
 

but it would be awesome to have dodge chargers and more Camaros out there. How do we do that? Experiment with a 4000 Lb AI class where we allow slush boxes, 315 tires, 20” wheels? 
 

 

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Al Watson
On 10/5/2019 at 9:03 PM, brucebyerly said:

315 tires? Why? 
 

I want to see AI stay current and avoid the A sedan virus, but faster cars with bigger tires just means more expense no matter how you slice it. 
 

I’ve heard an argument that it’s harder to restrict the later coyote engines but I seen no evidence. 
 

but it would be awesome to have dodge chargers and more Camaros out there. How do we do that? Experiment with a 4000 Lb AI class where we allow slush boxes, 315 tires, 20” wheels? 
 

 

Agreed on the 315's Bruce but it was submitted so we will entertain it.

 

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Al Watson

Updated list:

RCR-AIX-010519 - allow frame mods/notches anywhere not just rear frame only and also set limit on %of oem frame that must remain.

RCR-AI-033119 - increase Ai weight to power ratio

RCR-AI-040119 - allow 305/315 tires in Ai

RCR-AI-100619 lower min weight to 2700lbs

RCR-AI-100719 Increase rear IRS track width from 76.5 to 77"

 

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brucebyerly

Al, I looked over on Facebook as I do once ever few months.  Clearly the discussion is over there but I have yet to hear a good reason why we would consider the expense of larger tires and the new wheels and setup to go with them.  Hell, AJ won on 17’s. I also don’t see an issue with restricting coyotes.  It’s kept some fox bodies and others on track and shouldn’t keep anyone from racing if they want to race. Whatever is spent on a $20 restrictor or even a fancy tune is probably saved in consumables. BWTFDIK

2400 lb (empty) cars? There is SM and SE30. 

We have great racing across a wide range of cars. I think the goal should be stability with a continued effort to getting some newer hardware on track if possible.

It would be great to see more Camaros and even a Dodge out there but I’m not sure how to do that. 

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Al Watson

I have been following the discussion on facebook Bruce, but we use this forum for official stuff, and yes all good points.

 

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Al Watson

Updated list:

RCR-AIX-010519 - allow frame mods/notches anywhere not just rear frame only and also set limit on %of oem frame that must remain.

RCR-AI-033119 - increase Ai weight to power ratio

RCR-AI-040119 - allow 305/315 tires in Ai

RCR-AI-100619 lower min weight to 2700lbs

RCR-AI-100719 Increase rear IRS track width from 76.5 to 77"

RCR-AI-101119 allow composite roofs for all cars

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74 mach

RCR-AIX-010519 - allow frame mods/notches anywhere not just rear frame only and also set limit on %of oem frame that must remain.

Strongly disagree with % of oem frame rails.

It will be impossible to accurately measure.

OEM frame rails have been a foundation for AIX.

People need to read the rule book before building cars, not try to get the rules changed after the build.

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Al Watson

Updated list:

RCR-AIX-010519 - allow frame mods/notches anywhere not just rear frame only and also set limit on %of oem frame that must remain.

RCR-AI-033119 - increase Ai weight to power ratio

RCR-AI-040119 - allow 305/315 tires in Ai

RCR-AI-100619 lower min weight to 2700lbs

RCR-AI-100719 Increase rear IRS track width from 76.5 to 77"

RCR-AI-101119 allow composite roofs for all cars

RCR-SI-101419 allow any rear upper shock mount since ford M-18197-A has been discontinued

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brucebyerly

Agree with 74 Mach whoever you are.

Composite roofs? C’mon Poe, show yourself. What’s the point? It’s the only steel panel left on AJ’s car 😝

Upper rear shock mounts? What’s the deal there? That might be legit.

Rear track width, what’s the issue? Can someone make a case?

Anyway, I’ve always been shocked at the lack of activity here given the million dollars of effort that shows up at Nationals, etc. But I guess racers are gonna be tight lipped. 

 Bottom line, unless it brings new cars in, makes it cheaper to race, or equalizes known performance deficits, I’m for no changes and continued rules stability. Most of us aren’t exploiting the rules to the max, just trying to have a good time. As it stands now, it seems all you need to do to get a grand am car into AI is to get rid of the dry sump and throw in a restrictor. An A sedan car can roll right on in. What more can we do?

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nape
On 10/7/2019 at 9:32 PM, brucebyerly said:

2400 lb (empty) cars? There is SM and SE30. 

 

Bruce,

My car weighs 2780lbs post race with my 225lb butt, 4 gallons of fuel, an iron block, and a Ford 9". No carbon, no fancy stuff., stock stamped K-member, A-arms, weight jacks, and 5.5" springs.

It's not my fault the newer cars are so heavy and my solution to the increased P/W ratio over the years was to reduce weight, not add engine. Still on the same 305 from 2008.

I would've protested the increase in minimum weight harder if I wasn't working so much at the time. Running at 2900lbs definitely increased my consumable wear rate.

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Al Watson

Updated list:

RCR-AIX-010519 - allow frame mods/notches anywhere not just rear frame only and also set limit on %of oem frame that must remain.

RCR-AI-033119 - increase Ai weight to power ratio

RCR-AI-040119 - allow 305/315 tires in Ai

RCR-AI-100619 lower min weight to 2700lbs

RCR-AI-100719 Increase rear IRS track width from 76.5 to 77"

RCR-AI-101119 allow composite roofs for all cars

RCR-SI-101419 allow any rear upper shock mount since ford M-18197-A has been discontinued

RCR-SI-102319 increase wght/pwr ratio in si to 11.25hp and 10.75tq

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TBGRacing

RCR-AI-033119 - increase Ai weight to power ratio

I am in full support of increasing the AI weight to power ratio from 9.5 to 8.50 while still keeping the allowance for non-ABS cars to be at .5 below the ABS cars. I fully agree that cars with no ABS should be allowed to have more power, but at the same time keeping the power to ration at 9.5 for Ford ABS is very restrictive and unfair considering the new braking technology available to all car manufactures that are eligible to run in American Iron. There are people interested in running American Iron until they hear about the weight to power ratio. It makes no sense to them to buy a GT 350 Mustang and have to restrict the engine by 60-80 hp. I know the position of the directors has been...

"Our logic is to keep up with the times and what new cars are coming out with however our baseline is not a 'race prepped' track cars like the 302s or gt350 etc, our baseline is GT type v8 base models."

I can see where this was a great starting point for American Iron, however, for the class to continue to grow in car counts and manufactures the rules should keep pace with the times. The Boss 302S is still available, the GT350 is marketed for track events, Chevrolet Camaro, Dodge?? The current manufactures are not building high performance cars for NASA's weight to power ratio rule. They are building cars that people will buy for track days and competition. The rule should be evaluated and changed to keep up with the times.

Edited by TBGRacing

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Mike Rousch

To add to the above the latest generation Mustang GT or a Camaro SS will both lay down right at 420rwhp completely stock, race weight on either car would be around 3600ish so moving to 8.5 PTW would be a good move. 

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