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focusedintntions

Rule Change: Change ratio for GTS2 to 13.5

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focusedintntions

GTS2 has essentially been spec e36 M for years. Also some BMW 330's which have similar power to weight. These cars have remained forced into a class where they have to run a bunch of weight along with restrictors. The GTS2 field in Midatlantic is one of the more healthy in the country. Very few would be capable of optimizing the GTS3 ratio. So even though racers want to race faster cars, they are forced to either stay where they can be competitive in GTS2 with their S52's, or move up to GTS3 where they aren't at the power to weight limit. Rather than forcing these racers to spend money and move to ST4 in order to be able to really run to the limit of their cars ability competitively, GTS2 should offer a better solution. The change to 14.0 for 2019 was a great move in the right direction and gave people a year to prepare for the eventual move to 13.5. So time to move the rest of the way`

~Chris Davis, #17 Nasa-MA

 

 

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daytonars4

I support this change. Pretty easy for 90%+ of the cars in GTS2 to either drop a little weight or add a little power for either no or minimal additional cost. 

 

Lawrence Gibson

Midatlantic GTS2/ST3

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rokkit
Posted (edited)

I do not support this change. This would alienate those who don't have s52 (m50 and others would need to modify to be competitive). Also adding more power opens the door to the wide body and huge tire discussion we've been having and has kept GTS2 plentiful. GTS3 has seen everyone go to 315s and although it may not be the route to go for 2 at 13.5, it will make more tire useable. In addition, this makes the 46 chassis more viable and the s54 more competitive as it no longer needs a large de-tune. 

Keep 2 lower cost, keep attendance high.

 

I don't support this change request.

Mike Sousa

#530 GTS2, Northeast

Edited by rokkit

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daytonars4

There is already an e46 M in GTS2 in NE so not sure how this minor adjustment has any change on chassis selection or competitiveness. The fastest ST4 car at Nationals at 12 to 1 was an e36 M on 245’s. Soooo... Whether a 330whp stock S54 needs to detune to 210whp or 220whp is still a large detune. So not following you there? A stock M50 can not be competitive at 14 to 1. So not sure how the change impacts that? 

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rokkit

It's another factor. The biggest issue is wider tires. We saw gts3 go big tire and wide body. Once you add power people play the tire game. The ONLY reason the fastest dude (wazi) is on 245 is because the weight and tire works. He's only on an R because it's regulated. 

E46 m3 can play in 2 but they haven't posted a huge issue in imbalance due to the de-tune level they need. 

 

I'd be ok with increasing power if we control wide body and tire.... But both of those issues have proven to be shot down

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daytonars4

Numerous people, including from NE who have wide tires, have privately told me they are fine with a GTS tire mod. It addresses the perception issue regardless of whether it’s relevant or not. NE has a lot of tracks that are heavily reliant on mechanical grip so no surprise that’s the trend there. But nobody wants to put their name on it to make the case in a proposal and accept the public hate that will likely come. So, are you willing to?

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rokkit
Posted (edited)

Am I willing to suggest wider tire is more durable and can be made to be quicker over the duration of the race? Yes I'll put my name on that. 

I'll also put my name on the fact that less power is the only thing keeping people from going wider. I think Zach is the widest and heaviest by far with most power..... But... Like I said you open the power you open the door to the tire. 

 

I've also proposed keeping tire size limited back in... What 2014?

Edited by rokkit

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daytonars4

Go ahead and make the tire mod proposal and let’s see where it goes. Zach has been wide and dominating GTS2 for years. So I’m not sure I really connect how 14 to 13.5 all of a sudden changes what people choose to do. I don’t think anyone wants to start seeing 315’s in GTS2. I know it was experimented with in NE and proved to just not work. The added .5 I can’t see making that strategy work but who knows. 

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rokkit

Can we just copy paste Luke's proposal or my proposal from a billion years ago? I just don't wanna support more power

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f.millan

I am against this.  I don't see a reason for it.  E36 m3 can comfortably make the current rule set.  And s54s can come down to the current rule set.  I just don't see a need to go change it for nothing.  We can't afford to drive prospects away or worse current gts2 drivers.  

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Alan_Wolfe

I'm against this.

Had to make SC upgrade to get to 14.0 (13.6).  Would have to upgrade again to get to 13.5 (13.1)

Are you also going to change GTS1 to 16 as well?  That would make a 2.5 gap from 4 to 3, 3 to 2, and 2 to 1.  You changed both GTS2 and GTS1 last year.

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Ev
22 hours ago, f.millan said:

I am against this.  I don't see a reason for it.  E36 m3 can comfortably make the current rule set.  And s54s can come down to the current rule set.  I just don't see a need to go change it for nothing.  We can't afford to drive prospects away or worse current gts2 drivers.  

The need I see is often Gts2 runs with SE46, and they have power on us, but hold us up in the turns. That little bit of hp will allow the gts2 cars a chance to more easily get around out of class idiots.  

Thats my reason...

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gofastzach
On 10/7/2019 at 12:24 PM, rokkit said:

Am I willing to suggest wider tire is more durable and can be made to be quicker over the duration of the race? Yes I'll put my name on that. 

I'll also put my name on the fact that less power is the only thing keeping people from going wider. I think Zach is the widest and heaviest by far with most power..... But... Like I said you open the power you open the door to the tire. 

 

I've also proposed keeping tire size limited back in... What 2014?

Mike, can you confirm what tire size you ran at nats this year? 

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rokkit
Posted (edited)
12 hours ago, gofastzach said:

Mike, can you confirm what tire size you ran at nats this year? 

Sorry I cant expose key setup data to the community

 

Jk 265/35/18

Edited by rokkit

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SchusterMcgavin

In favor with full intentions of maintaining 245-40-17 rubber shoes.

GTS2 newcomer for 2020 in MA.

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Scott B.

I have no problem running 13.5 ratio in GTS2, I think it would be fun.  But not at the expense of losing good competitors.  The bump from 14.5 to 14 this year was a lot of fun and made it easy to break old track records.  Maybe we can see how much faster we can get while staying at the 14 ratio.  I'm OK with no power bump as long as we leave everything else as is.  ;) 

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jscheier

I support this proposal. 

I'd also like to caution that if GTS2 moves to 13.5:1, and GTS3 remains at 11:1, the speed power / speed differential becomes a lot smaller.   With GTS2 getting faster (at least in our region), a move to 13.5 would pretty much necessitate a move to 10:1 for GTS3.

 

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gofastzach

I had a longer response to this but to keep things short I hesitate to accept this rule for the simple fact of I don’t know if this will attract more drivers to gts2. 
 

for the record I run the tires that I do because of two reasons mostly. 1 it’s the only tire size in a 17” rim that helps with my rear end ratio that I can’t change like the bmws can. 2 it helps with my cars top speed disadvantage. 
 

if we take the specs from nationals this year I ran similar power to my competitors 211-213 and ran overweight. I feel the rule change will work heavily in my benefit personally. 

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