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rcrescencio

Rule Change: GTS3 ratio 11 to 10

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rcrescencio

GTS3 has been losing racers to ST3/4 for a variety of reasons over the past 2-3 years.  One way to try and recapture some of those racers back is to make the transition back to GTS seamless and without having to incur a cost penalty for another tune.  It also allows GTS3 cars to be able to run Time Trials without having to modify the car (adjust power and/or weight).  GTS3 showing during Nationals at Mid-O was pretty dismal, and with the exception of NE regions, many competitors have fled to other classes.  Unless NASA is willing to write GTS3 off, officials should make every effort to make it appealing for drivers to see the benefit of the rule set and come back.

-Roberto Crescencio, #7, 2018 GTS3 National Champion, Nasa-MA

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daytonars4

I support this change. Maybe it’ll entice the ST3 crowd back “home” 🤞😂 Could also help reduce the extent of the out of class racing with GTS4 that has started to increase as the front of GTS3 has reached the pace of mid-pack GTS4 pace. Cayman S would also fit well at 10. They’ve come down in price since the release of Clubsports so there are likely to be more around NASA. 

 

Lawrence Gibson 

Midatlantic GTS2/ST3

 

Edited by daytonars4

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Enhanced 3

I support this change.  As a current ST3 racer (and former gts3 racer) the ability to make an easy crossover (with minimal car changes) into GTS3 for out of region races where gts is more prevalent is very appealing.   

 

Steve Laderman

MidAtlantic ST3 and GTS3/4

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Trackrocket

I support this change as well.
As a matter of fact, it’s MY idea, circa 2012. 😁
Also, keep the gap attractive and go 8.0 for GTS4 and 12.5-13 for GTS2 and adjust GTS1 appropriately.  

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sips56

My opinion is the power ratio is not the issue challenging GTS entries. This change serves no purpose and provides no value for current racers and to attract new racers. ST MA guys defected because of the engine mod rule which has now been revoked.  You are welcome to come back anytime you want. 

If we want to help the series focus on tire regulation and limit the gap between the front and back.

I vote no and extend that no to the proposal for gts2 PW proposal as well.  

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Michael G.
48 minutes ago, sips56 said:

My opinion is the power ratio is not the issue challenging GTS entries. This change serves no purpose and provides no value for current racers and to attract new racers. ST MA guys defected because of the engine mod rule which has now been revoked.  You are welcome to come back anytime you want. 

If we want to help the series focus on tire regulation and limit the gap between the front and back.

I vote no and extend that no to the proposal for gts2 PW proposal as well.  

Luke,

How do you propose to regulate tires? Size? Compounds? Both?

Michael G.

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focusedintntions

I support this change.  I think most of the ma gts3 racers haven't come back to gts b/c they've gotten used to and enjoying the added speed of st3. 

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daytonars4
1 hour ago, Michael G. said:

Luke,

How do you propose to regulate tires? Size? Compounds? Both?

Michael G.

You could do .3 bonus for 275's and under. Then .2 bonus for R tires. Done and done. Pointless to even bother with just compound if you aren't looking at width. Then you could just leave GTS2 at 14 since it becomes 13.5 depending on tires. GTS3 should still go to 10 though even if you added tire bonus. Yes, it's against the spirit of GTS rules. Yes it will piss off some current GTS racers. But that's up to the NE racers who this mainly impacts to make an effort to defend the concept. This has no impact on Midatlantic bc nobody has a developed widebody car here. 

Edited by daytonars4
added

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rcrescencio
37 minutes ago, focusedintntions said:

I support this change.  I think most of the ma gts3 racers haven't come back to gts b/c they've gotten used to and enjoying the added speed of st3. 

Yes.  That is indeed true.  But it doesn’t take away the fact that those who would like to supersize to TT would have to be changing the car all the time.  Greg doesn’t anyone changing their cars in ST/TT after qualifying.  It’s just more headaches.  Nasa should want and incentivize those who would like to spend more money by supersizing. So the crossover between GTS TT ratios should be the goal.

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rcrescencio
2 hours ago, sips56 said:

My opinion is the power ratio is not the issue challenging GTS entries. This change serves no purpose and provides no value for current racers and to attract new racers. ST MA guys defected because of the engine mod rule which has now been revoked.  You are welcome to come back anytime you want. 

If we want to help the series focus on tire regulation and limit the gap between the front and back.

I vote no and extend that no to the proposal for gts2 PW proposal as well.  

And force everyone to have to get a new tune.  Also in my other reply, it doesn’t address crossing to TT.

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Michael G.
8 minutes ago, daytonars4 said:

You could do .3 bonus for 275's and under. Then .2 bonus for R tires. Done and done. Pointless to even bother with just compound if you aren't looking at width. Then you could just leave GTS2 at 14 since it becomes 13.5 depending on tires. GTS3 should still go to 10 though even if you added tire bonus. Yes, it's against the spirit of GTS rules. Yes it will piss off some current GTS racers. But that's up to the NE racers who this mainly impacts to make an effort to defend the concept. This has no impact on Midatlantic bc nobody has a developed widebody car here. 

Lawrence,

Just to clarify, .2 for R meaning R7 and similar vs. A7?

Michael G.

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daytonars4

Correct. (BFG R1/Hoosier R7) .2 bonus vs (BFG R1S/Hoosier A7) no bonus. 275mm and under .3 bonus. Also a -0.5 for slicks. 

 

So conceptually a 312whp GTS3 car would be as follows with GTS3 base at 10 to 1:

280+mm A7      3120lbs

275mm A7        3026lbs

275mm R7        2964lbs

280+mm slick  3276lbs

275mm slick    3182lbs

 

The fastest guys now are still going to continue to be the fastest guys in the class. But maybe at least the rest of the pack won't get crushed as badly 😂

Edited by daytonars4

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Emag

I do not support this change.  It's too large of a jump to force on the existing racers.  It also makes GTS3 even less appealing for new builds, power isn't cheap.  

 

Rather, I support a tire rule that makes GTS3 more appealing to ST3 racers that use 275 and under for the added power.  10.5:1 for up to 275, 11:1 285 and over.  It would not be difficult for ST3 racers to ballast up 0.5 if they're not able to change tunes.  Most are already at 10.2:1 anyway.  

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focusedintntions

Why is it everybody immediately says add power, and new tunes....most gts cars are heavy, could just be lose weight in the car. 

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daytonars4

Just for clarification, ST3 e46’s in MA race at 9.7. Most cars range 310-325whp at 3000 to 3150lbs on 275’s. The suggest 10.5 would put those cars at 3255 to 3400lbs. It’s just not gonna happen. Makes much more since to align GTS3 with TT3 for double dipping etc.

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Emag
2 hours ago, focusedintntions said:

Why is it everybody immediately says add power, and new tunes....most gts cars are heavy, could just be lose weight in the car. 

Just lose weight?  How, 5 speed, carbon, etc...? 

I’m at 3100lb no ballast and no easy / cheap weight to strip.  

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focusedintntions

 

On 10/13/2019 at 9:51 PM, Emag said:

Just lose weight?  How, 5 speed, carbon, etc...? 

I’m at 3100lb no ballast and no easy / cheap weight to strip.  

Eric, I have no idea how/why your car is so heavy.  I see it pretty routinely that e46 m3 get down to under 2800lbs (with no driver) without any crazy amount of work.  The ones with lots of carbon bits are under 2600. 

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jscheier

I support the move for GTS3 ratio from 11:1 to 10:1.   In our region, that would naturally class an S54 in GTS3.   We are also looking to add additional PCA racers in our region who are running Caymans in a format that would easily cross over to GTS3 if we were at 10:1.

 

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