2020 ST/TT Car Classification Form

[Roman V.]

We have published the 2020 form which you can find at:

https://form.jotform.com/drivenasa/st-tt-car-classification-form

We have made several improvements to the form and submissions table as described below.

1. The form only asks for Minimum Competition Weight input. The Max Average Horsepower (Max Avg HP) is calculated automatically based on the class selection and the Total Mod Factor. This is done to get you as close as possible for the class' Weight/Power ratio. The Declared Max Avg HP is always rounded down. This way the calculations are always in compliance.

2. The form might recommend a lower weight for the targeted Max Avg HP because the calculations round down the Declared Max Avg HP. Please note that the Recommended Minimum Competition Weight does not account for the weight factor change in the final calculation. So if you are on the borderline, the Recommended Minimum Competition Weight, if used,  will change your Declared Max Avg HP.

3. Each submission will have its own folder with all the uploaded documents in the Airtable. Each time you edit form, new attachments and a new form will be uploaded to the Compliance Docs folder. Everything is time-stamped. One folder will contain all the current and past submissions for your car.

4. The latest ST/TT form for your submission is linked in the new column called "Latest Form" in the Airtable.

Make sure to leave some room for dyno variance by increasing your minimum weight if needed.

Everything else is the same, including editing the form. Please only submit one form per car/class. Duplicates will be deleted.

If you run into an issue with the form or have feedback, please post in this thread. 

Happy New Year and 2020 Race Season!

[Balroks]

Hey Roman,

Can you add a field that does the *.10 mustang dyno number as well, thanks.

[Roman V.]

9 minutes ago, Balroks said:

Hey Roman,

Can you add a field that does the *.10 mustang dyno number as well, thanks.

A separate calculation for the mustang Dyno? Give me some examples for the numbers please.

[Balroks]

AWD cars are permitted (and always typically use) mustang dyno's which always produce a lower number (long history) so Greg wrote the rule to state all AWD/non dynojet dyno sheets are required to multiply their final dyno numbers by 1.1

In the paper form there was a separate field for this so logically we'll need the same using this method.  So in your case if someone selects the AWD button, and selects a "Mustang dyno?" button, then you create the closest mustang number.

Say Form calculation says 300HP DJ.  You can either divide this number by 1.1 and get 272, or you can start with 272 * 1.1 and see that it's slightly short, so you go up to 273 * 1.1 and see that you get 300.3, and round down as your already doing. 

If its easier you can give a "recommended Mustang average" field doing the division.  But they'd still have to review manually.

 

Edited January 6, 2020 by Balroks

[Roman V.]

2 minutes ago, Balroks said:

AWD cars are permitted (and always typically use) mustang dyno's which always produce a lower number (long history) so Greg wrote the rule to state all AWD/non dynojet dyno sheets are required to multiply their final dyno numbers by 1.1

In the paper form there was a separate field for this so logically we'll need the same using this method.  So in your case if someone selects the AWD button, and selects a "Mustang dyno?" button, then you multiply and subtract the difference.

Say Form calculation says 300HP DJ, *1.1 = 330, subtract 30 from dj number = 270 Mustang number in a 2nd declared field

I will give it a thought on how to best implement it. There are a lot of moving pieces from calculations to the final form, which make it tricky. 

[weenrock]

I am trying to submit a form for TT5, but how do I know if I am above the 14 minimum? The old version showed if i was above or below.

[Balroks]

I did it backwards, edited.

[Roman V.]

13 minutes ago, weenrock said:

I am trying to submit a form for TT5, but how do I know if I am above the 14 minimum? The old version showed if i was above or below.

The form automatically calculates it for you. It will always calculate up to the maximum allowed for the selected class.

[Brendan S.]

Roman,

I just had a TT4 driver ask about the Toyo RR 100 UTQG rating exception, and when I looked at it, the form under TT4 does not specify that the Toyo RR is considered 100 TW for classification purposes.  Is it possible to add that in to eliminate any confusion?

Thanks!

Edited January 6, 2020 by Brendan S.

[Roman V.]

5 minutes ago, Brendan S. said:

Roman,

I just had a TT4 driver ask about the Toyo RR 100 UTQG rating exception, and when I looked at it, the form under TT4 does not specify that the Toyo RR is considered 100 TW for classification purposes.  Is it possible to add that in to eliminate any confusion?

Thanks!

Great catch. Updated and added -0.6 assessment. 

[Brendan S.]

2 minutes ago, Roman V. said:

Great catch. Updated and added -0.6 assessment. 

You're the man! Thank you.

[Mark Petronis]

Just a heads up - the Non-Dot tire mod factors don't match the actual mod factors that are being calculated. Just a mis-print in the tire mod category.

 

 

[Roman V.]

3 minutes ago, Mark Petronis said:

Just a heads up - the Non-Dot tire mod factors don't match the actual mod factors that are being calculated. Just a mis-print in the tire mod category.

 

 

When you select the Non-Dot option in the Tire Size, the Non-Dot approved tires (ST1/TT1, ST2,TT2) -0.5 below is selected automatically. The total mod factor calculation is correct. 

[Mark Petronis]

1 minute ago, Roman V. said:

When you select the Non-Dot option in the Tire Size, the Non-Dot approved tires (ST1/TT1, ST2,TT2) -0.5 below is selected automatically. The total mod factor calculation is correct. 

Ohhhhhhhhhhhhhhh, gotcha!  Seems a little convoluted but perhaps that's the price you pay for automation. Thanks!

 

[Roman V.]

Just now, Mark Petronis said:

Ohhhhhhhhhhhhhhh, gotcha!  Seems a little convoluted but perhaps that's the price you pay for automation. Thanks!

 

This change was done last year as competitors were forgetting to click the second option and being out of compliance. 

[BuyMyFordGT]

Regarding the Dyno Numbers. Can a Hub Dyno be used ?

[Brendan S.]

This is probably a Roman or Greg question as we have not had that come up in our region, so I have no answer for you.

[Roman V.]

On 1/24/2020 at 7:28 PM, BuyMyFordGT said:

Regarding the Dyno Numbers. Can a Hub Dyno be used ?

From the rules:

Dynamometer tests must be conducted on a Dynojet Model for front and rear wheel drive vehicles, and on a Dynojet, Mustang, Dyno Dynamics, or Dynapack for AWD cars, in a commercial facility that offers dynamometer testing as part of their business and is open to the public. All (AWD) Dyno test results using a Mustang or Dyno Dynamics dynamometer will have 10% added to the maximum horsepower reading to obtain the number that will be used to calculate the “Adjusted Weight/Power Ratio” (Mustang or Dyno Dynamics Dyno awhp x 1.1 = Maximum awhp for wt/hp calculation).

Unless you are AWD you cannot use anything but Dynojet. 

[Murphdog]

So no matter what if you are AWD you have to take 10% Unless it’s a dynojet? Also are those the only dynos we can use for AWD?  My tuner switched to a Mainline dyno from a Dyno Dynamics and they read almost exactly the same. So is there any way to allow the Mainline dyno as an option?

Edited March 28, 2020 by Murphdog

[Greg G.]

No, sorry.  We are not adding any more Dyno models to the list.

[Balroks]

Hey Guys,

Somehow the weight mod factor is broken.  It keeps selecting -0.3 no matter what reasonable weight you choose under 3300 when you go to EDIT a form.  Somehow the logic from the edit portion defaults to the lowest possible number as soon as you change it.   New forms seem to keep it correct.

[Roman V.]

16 minutes ago, Balroks said:

Hey Guys,

Somehow the weight mod factor is broken.  It keeps selecting -0.3 no matter what reasonable weight you choose under 3300 when you go to EDIT a form.  Somehow the logic from the edit portion defaults to the lowest possible number as soon as you change it.   New forms seem to keep it correct.

What is your submission id?

[Balroks]

I don't see a number except for in the URL when you go edit?

 

Email if you prefer to take offline - indyvr6 at yahoo

[Balroks]

EDIT:  4******26091767

[Roman V.]

On 6/6/2020 at 5:50 PM, Balroks said:

Hey Guys,

Somehow the weight mod factor is broken.  It keeps selecting -0.3 no matter what reasonable weight you choose under 3300 when you go to EDIT a form.  Somehow the logic from the edit portion defaults to the lowest possible number as soon as you change it.   New forms seem to keep it correct.

Fixed!